BS: Edwards out of the race

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 05:46 PM

It is said about the nephew losing a rental situation..but it sounds like he has a good job..3 people, one a baby, can live in a one bedroom apartment..God knows our ancestors probably had 20 in the same space..mine anyway...for a temporary sitaution. Perhaps they will be able to afford a cheaper house now..but I wouldn't move 200 miles to live iwth a mother in law when there were other temporary options...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 05:42 PM

Well, get ready for a big POOF!

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 02:23 PM

Yes, our money is actually a gigantic fiction. It works (sort of) only because the people have all tacitly agreed to pretend it's real.

It's a form of religion...one that relates to the formalized exchange of goods and services. It's a symbolic custom. It will last as long as people keep believing in it. It will vanish like a puff of smoke on the day a majority of people cease believing in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Peace
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 01:44 PM

BTW, the deficit is not a problem. Money has ceased to have value. I figure the rationale in Washington goes lots like this: Corner the energy market. Declare all debts to foreign countries null and void. Bingo. Te new currency is the E Dollar. And who's got the E?

Tell me: when's the last time you actually saw the gold in Fort Knox? And how did you know it was gold, and not gold paint on lead? What actually supports the American dollar? Who says? What happens when those who say stop saying?

You bank account exists because a computer tells you it exists. We will all of us wake up one day and there will be a temporary problem accessing our accounts. Go to the bank and it's closed. What ya gonna do? Call ghost busters?

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Peace
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 01:32 PM

People HAVE seen the economic disaster coming. Much like a new ice age. It's coming. What's a guy to do? Hell, the US was trillions in debt years ago. It's just more trillions. Who the hell knows what a trillion IS?

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 01:26 PM

Peace - I agree, you're right about that, but it continues to puzzle me why many people were never able to see this coming.
                  Especially the economic disaster. When Greenspan started dropping American interest rates in 1998 for the purpose of saving the Asian economies, it looks to me like what we are facing now should have been obvious to anyone who even thought about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Peace
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 11:43 AM

The real difficulty is that no one sees him/herself as being part of the problem. It's only in part about religion/sedation. It's also about people who are so fu#kin' complacent that the shit coming down now--which has been coming down on the poor for fu#kin' ever--is beginning to impact Mr/Mrs/Ms and friggin' Miss America. So, NOW it's a problem.


RIGHT!

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 11:24 AM

"The British experience was that the white middle classes - who were losing their houses, jobs, cars and TVs under Thatcher (apart from the richer ones of them) still did not riot."


                         The US didn't riot under Reagan either, but I think they would have if huge portions of the public had not been sedated with religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 08:45 AM

Time for Dems to wake up and smell the coffee. "The lesser of two evils" strategy gave us two terms of Bush/Cheney, the country in the ditch, a world in perpetual war, and a silent international coup by the global corporate plutocrats.

That's what the lesser of two evils gets you.

Happy now?

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Ron Davies
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 07:07 AM

Not for "over a year" but at least several of us have been suggesting the Obama/Edwards ticket since April 2007.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Ron Davies
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 06:59 AM

I agree with the earlier statement that from a political perspective it makes perfect sense for Edwards to be VP--a perfect partner for Obama would indeed be Edwards: a southern white man with impressive labor credentials and a passion for improving the lives of the less fortunate. In fact several of us have been suggesting this on Mudcat for over a year.

But regardless of what Edwards does personally, Obama needs--now--- to be directly addressing the needs of what has been Edwards' constituency. He could for instance push hard for renegotiation of international agreements like CAFTA, and bilateral agreements with other nations --to insist on labor and environmental safeguards--and incidentally try to cut down on unfair competition from low-labor cost countries. Also push for extension of unemployment compensation. And a host of other ideas--still stopping short of outright protectionism.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 06:12 AM

The British experience was that the white middle classes - who were losing their houses, jobs, cars and TVs under Thatcher (apart from the richer ones of them) still did not riot.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: michaelr
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 01:55 AM

Yeah, I'm afraid you may be right.



I'm going back to Germany.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 11:37 PM

It has to get so bad, in my opinion, that the fecking middle class are all losing their houses, their jobs, and their security. We're talking major meltdown. It has to reach the point where rioting mobs of white middle-class people are fighting the police and the national guard, and the economy is collapsing around them.

That would be my guess. When the middle class white American can't even afford a TV anymore and he can't tune in to CNN and Fox and watch Survivor, that's when it'll be bad enough.

I hope not to be anywhere nearby when that happens, needless to say...

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: michaelr
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 10:46 PM

So how bad does it have to get? Full-on fascism? Gawd, I'm so fucking sick of this benighted country and its idiotic citizenry.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 10:42 PM

Well, it's a shared responsibility. The voters are responsible, yes. Evidently things have not gotten bad enough yet to wake enough of them up.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Peace
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 09:50 PM

Folks, I gotta go. See ya tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 09:48 PM

Nope, you can't just blame MSM. Voters are responsible for their actions.

The United States has the president it deserves, because of the choices voters made to vote like illiterate dumbasses who sign their name with an 'X'

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 09:36 PM

Yup. That's a fact. Now how are most of the potential voters in the USA going to get the message of the candidates who are offering real alternatives if the MSM shuts them out and/or minimalizes its coverage of them?

As usual, the tail is wagging the dog. The tail is the MSM and their corporate owners, the defence industry, and the oil industry. The dog is the government, the political parties, and the public in general.

This is one case where the dog should turn around and bite his own tail. Hard.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Peace
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 09:35 PM

LOL

I thought that forty years ago when I worked for McCarthy.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 09:24 PM

They dropped out of the race because of Jackasses for Obama and Dumbasses for Clinton voters.

They dropped out because the jackasses and dumbasses didn't vote for the "electable" candidates, right?

That's all you heard from people in this forum this last week. They weren't going to vote for Kucinich and Edwards because they "just couldn't see" how they could win.

I'll tell you how they could win. They could win if the jackass and dumbass voters could figure out how to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 09:22 PM

The "free world" is a myth anyway. And speaking as a Canadian...we don't want your president as our surrogate leader. We don't trust you that much that we would wish to hand over leadership to the president of some other country.

Be that as it may, we sure wish you would elect someone besides a Republican next time, I'll say that...

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Peace
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 09:18 PM

"God people, get a fucking grip."

Yell at the people. Mudcat is not the people. It's not even a cross-section of the people. It's not like this situation just developed. It's been a descending blues run for decades.

"Is this who you want as leader of the free world?"

For myself, no. But the two people who might have been better dropped out of the race. It is a lesser of evils. But I don't think anyone would prefer the greater of evils to rule the free world, another statement with which I disagree. IMO, the US has this one chance to turn itself around. If it fails, and the 'world' gets another fuckin' Republican president, I think the world will turn on the US the way a pissed off dog turns on it's unkindly owner.

Sorry about the family situation. Yes, it sucks. Foreclosures have been happening to family farms for decades. It's always a bit tougher when it is close to home. Been there, had that done. Keep well.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 08:58 PM

Amen to that, michaelr.

Leave it to the friggin' Democrats to decide this is the year to be all historic, while the country goes even further down the tubes.

I am so angry today, I can barely see straight, as they say.

My nephew, his wife, and their 18 month old daughter were evicted from their home because their speculator landlord walked away from the property and let it go into foreclosure.

This will result in his wife and baby having to move 200 miles away, to live with her mother, while they figure out what to do.

He is a paramedic for Children's Hospital in Chicago, and his family will be living for the forseeable future, in Madison, because they can't afford to go without the health insurance

What the fuck kind of country is this, anyway?

I'm still waiting to hear Obama or Clinton talk about families in these straights. It's all about "experience" and "unity" and "no more politics of the past" fucking platitudes, appealing to the idiot voters who want somebody who makes them feel good when they watch them on TV, instead of somebody who can do the damn work of dealing with this derailed train wreck we call the US of A.

Screw Obama, Edwards, and Clinton. If you don't start voting according to the interests of the nation, instead of the latest rock star politician, what the hell country do you think you are going to get, anyway?

And people bitch because I refuse to vote for any of these jerks?

And just to top it all off, I just finished watching the CSPAN Giuliani/McCain love fest. That really cheered me up, because I know that means the Republicans are quickly going to fall in line behind McCain, even if they hate him, because now they can start running against BOTH Clinton and Obama. The Republicans want to win.

The Democrats? Oh, they want to FEEL GOOD about their candidate. They want to be inspired. They want a magical historic minority candidate.

Sure, like that will turn the nation around.

God people, get a fucking grip. These candidates aren't going to fix anything, and honest to god, I don't even believe Obama could do a damn thing even if he were, by some miracle, to be elected. I mean the guy's credentials are he was a community organizer & a professional political candidate? Give me a break. This is who you want to be leader of the free world? Are you crazy?

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: michaelr
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 06:36 PM

This is terrible news, and it all but guarantees four more years of Republican presidency. I am totally bummed.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 06:04 PM

Dani, glad to see you're a fellow Bill Bradley fan. I had a two-foot-high stack of undistributed Bradley For President bumperstickers languishing in my basement, ready to be recycled in some future election year, until they were carried away in the Katrina floodwaters.

If he had won the Democratic nomination back in 2000, maybe we would have been spared the compounded idiocy of the last 8 years.

Well, the experts said Bill was not a charismatic enough speaker to win the Presidency, and they were probably correct. Just being smarter than anyone else in politics, and highly conscientious, isn't enough to get elected.

Maybe Dollar Bill, rather than any of the current candidiates in the primaries, will be the right guy to be installed as Obama's running mate; Barack has enough oratorical skills for two people, and Bradley has the long experience and the "policy wonk" aptitiude that might be seen as deficient at the top of the ticket.

Certainly, there is no one in the country with a better understanding of the IRS and of realistic strategies for reforming our tax system than former Senator Bradley. In recent years, whenever a new administration is about to take over, there is always talk of giving the new VP some special project (because the job itself doesn't really require very many specific duties). A Vice-President Bradley could do an awful lot to improve Federal tax and financial policies.

Bill probably still has a better jump shot than the average politician, too, although I'm sure his knees are shot by now, and he's no longer able to move without the ball as brilliantly as he used to.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 05:42 PM

I feel sort of like that too, but with me it's Bill the Cat.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 05:33 PM

Oh, I can TOTALLY see him as VP. He'd do it... I'll bet. I'd be shocked if they hadn't already worked it out.

I'll be out knocking on doors the day they announce THAT news. I haven't been this excited about a race since Bill Bradley was involved.

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 04:59 PM

I would love to see Edwards as attorney general..suits his personality more I would say..I wish I had a better sense of something from Richardson..I don't dislike him and wish I liked him more...he reminds me of someone..not someone I dislike...I can see him as VP for Clinton but somehow not Obama...more of a style thing than policy...maybe he could be energy dean or something. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Wesley S
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 04:40 PM

VP's have little or nothing to do other than shake hands and stay healthy. However if Edwards were to be Attorney General he would probably get a lot more things done. We have plenty of laws in place to protect the poor. But the AG gets to choose which ones are enforced. I'm sure it would make a lot of the big corporations very nervous to see Edwards as Attorney General.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 04:30 PM

It sure would!

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 03:07 PM

For Clinton it'd make a lot of sense to have Edwards for her VP.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 12:13 PM

I like Obama, but he had better get his head out of his arse or he is going to be in the "It was a good fight, pa, but I lost..." category. Remembering that the first law of politics is, "It isn't what is real that counts, it's whats perceived to be real that counts", one can already see the seeds of doubt that are being sown. Folks say things like "I think he's great, but I am not sure what he stands for...." and such. If he doesn't get out front in some dramatic ways to change that perception among the older voters, he will have a series of close seconds and end up losing the nomination. The nastiness, as this starts to occur, will increase, damaging the Democratic nominee in the general election. McCain, presuming he gets the nomination, will be an incredibly formidable foe.

Obama needs to be seen as the charismatic leader to get the young voters. But they never carry an election, as they are not consistent likely voters. Obama must start to grab more and more endorsements from politicians that are seen as strong in the areas he needs. He needs to be seen as screening strong candidates for cabinet posts that will encourage the likely voters that he is strengthening his weak areas. Then he can continue with his strong message of hope and change.

Just my opinion.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 12:13 PM

That's pretty much how I see it too, Mick.

Saying that someone "can't work with Big Business" is an ironical sort of accusation for people to make...it's like they're making a tacit admission that Big Business actually runs everything...and that's the case, but it's exactly what's wrong with our society, and what needs to be challenged and changed.

Kucinich challenged it. Edwards challenged it. Now they are both out of the race, and that must make Big Business quite happy, I'm sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 12:04 PM

So much for the slobber-knocker Dem Convention I was kinda hopin' to see...

But this oughtta boost Obama's chances of surviving Billary on Super Tuesday...

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 11:58 AM

Breaks my heart. This is the only candidate out there that was unapologetic in his support for the American working family's interests over the interests of the corporatacracy (sp?). When someone charged that he would not be able to work with big business, his answer was that was upside down. They would have to work with him. He didn't see the point in the welfare program for corporations that included holding States and municipalities hostage for portions of the sales tax, subsidizing already profitable businesses at the expense of local services, or any of the other programs that benefitted profitable corporations to the detriment of the average citizen. He is alarmed at the increasing centralization of capital in fewer and fewer hands, and the increasing gap between the richest and the poorest.

Middle class America needs to abandon the opiate of who makes them "feel" more secure, and look at what is happening to them with a clear eye. Just as more and more mortgages these days are upside down, so it is with the working class. Under the guise of "It's the American way" they are putting more and more money in fewer and fewer pockets. They have been sold out and discarded, as the corporate interests pursue the emerging marketplace that is China.

I felt like he was the right one to start the long journey back.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 11:47 AM

So, the two who use the mantra of change remain. Those with actual proposals for change are gone. Says something to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 11:44 AM

Pragmatically speaking, neither Clinton nor Obama has any chance of carrying any southern states unless he or she has a white southern male as a running mate. Having one wouldn't make a big difference, maybe just a couple of percentage points, but that may be enough to carry a state or two. Nobody but Edwards makes any sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Peace
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 11:06 AM

Cesar Chavez (a man I admired very much) passed away in 1993. He'd have been perfect.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 11:03 AM

George, part of it is what SRS said - I just don't think he'll run as a VP again. Another thing is that I think people see him as more divisive than Obama, a bit too adversarial in his stand against corporations. It's why he got votes, but I think it's why he didn't get votes.

Obama - if he IS nominated - needs someone who has a long track record of being able to work with people of all political persuasions while maintaining focus on his ideals. In short, he needs the experience that the Clinton says he lacks, but he needs someone who's respected and can work well with others. If they were from California, it couldn't hurt.

I don't know who the heck that might be.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Alice
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 10:44 AM

Edwards has asked Obama and Clinton to keep poverty at the top of the list of campaign priorities.
Staff say he is next off to work with Habitat for Humanity.

NPR radio is reporting on it now, as he had said he would be in
to the last.

I agree that it was probably fund raising.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: jacqui.c
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 10:37 AM

I think that it was the financial problem - he just couldn't compete with either Obama or Clinton there.

I get the impression that Elizabeth would probably not allow him to resign for her sake. That is one tough lady.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Wesley S
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 10:33 AM

I wonder if his wife's health had anything to do with his decision?

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Peace
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 10:32 AM

If Edwards does declare for Obama, he will be in line for a good position in government. With the exceptions of Agnew and Cheney, the VPship has been a fairly powerless position (I stand to be corrected on that remark). I think he'd be much more effective elsewhere. The US has a good shot at putting decent government in place. After a long drought, I think y'all could use some rain.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 10:26 AM

I don't think he'll stand for running for VP again, nothing to do with Obama or Clinton, but for his standing personally.

We could see Richardson as VP, or Kucinich (a stretch, but a possibility?).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 10:19 AM

Jeri, I don't understand, why can't you see Edwards as Obama's VP? From out here it looks a logical (and very effective) ticket that would surely put a heck of an obstacle in front of the Hillary & Bill show.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 10:14 AM

I for one am sorry to hear it. I will miss his voice and view as the campaign goes forward. I was really warming up to him-- much more mature than his last run. I hope he made the right deal, because I cannot imagine he has not made a deal.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Alice
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 10:09 AM

I saw the news on CNN this morning.
I think Edwards has already shown his preference for Obama during the campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 09:51 AM

The announcement will be at 1PM (13:00) ET (Mudcat Time) from New Orleans.

I can't see him as Obama's VP. Attorney General, maybe - VP, no. I can't really see any of the candidates as Obabma's VP. Richardson, maybe, but I don't think that would be the ideal ticket.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 09:45 AM

Better than Clinton/Clinton/+someone else

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 09:37 AM

I would have NO problem voting Obama/Edwards. None.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: jacqui.c
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 09:36 AM

That could definitely be an interesting ticket.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Wesley S
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 09:35 AM

I'm thinking he already has or Edwards will still be running.

Subject: RE: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: jacqui.c
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 09:26 AM

I think that this is where Obama needs to be courting Edwards right now.

Subject: BS: Edwards out of the race
From: Wesley S
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 09:24 AM

MSNBC is reporting that Edwards is dropping out. Hmmm.....