translate a cantiga?

Subject: RE: translate a cantiga?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 07:40 PM

I'm not sure if she lives here or was just passing through. She was too shy to finish the song, which was a pity as she had an attractive voice. If she comes back I'll do my best to get her to sing again.

Subject: RE: translate a cantiga?
From: Monique
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 02:03 PM

Jack, if you can get the lyrics of this Catalan song, I can translate it.

Subject: RE: translate a cantiga?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 12:54 PM

I checked the recordings of Jordi Savall, Monserrat Figueras and Hesperion because their booklets have the lyrics in original language, Castilian, Catalan, English, French, German; they have recorded a few of the cantigas of Alfonso X, but not No. 42.

Subject: RE: translate a cantiga?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 11:19 AM

The language is usually described as Galician-Portuguese, which is from the other side of the Iberian peninsula from Catalonia, with Castilian in between. At the time, Castilian Spanish and Portuguese/Galician were closer than they are now, but Catalan was already very different (its closest relative is Occitan, spoken in southern France and northwest Italy).

We had a woman singing a modern song in Catalan in Sandy Bells last week. I can usually figure out something of Spanish or Portuguese, but couldn't make out a word.

Subject: RE: translate a cantiga?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 10:28 AM

Thanks, Monique, That gives me some sense of what the cantiga is about. In the verses that follow, she's going to set a philanderer on the path of virtue.

I believe that the language of the cantigas is called Catalan. It's wonderful that you can make sense of a text that old in a remote language, and I appreciate it.

Our group played the tune last night. (woodwinds, one guitar, two harps, percussion). I have had a copy of it floating around my place for a long time, perhaps a year, and I didn't think it especially promising. However, it had a very simple harmony part which I thought would suit a new player we have. To my amazement, when the big harp played the first few measures, the tune was hauntingly beautiful. We had a great time playing it with various instruments.

I shall be putting a gold star on it for future sessions.

Subject: RE: translate a cantiga?
From: Monique
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 06:22 AM

It translates more or less literaly as:

The highly glorious Virgin, spiritual queen, is jealous of the ones she loves because she doesn't want them to behave badly.
I'll tell you about this a nice miracle that you will like (in which you'll find pleasure), the Virgin made it, Our Lord's mother, and by it, she freed from a great error a very false lover who, often, would change his loves, from one to an other.

I'm sure you'll put it in proper English better than I would.

I found a modern Spanish translation here

Subject: RE: translate a cantiga?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 07:37 PM

A 'free' translation, posted here, would be much appreciated.

Subject: RE: translate a cantiga?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 07:35 PM

Difficult because not in modern Castilian.

These are the "Cantigas de Santa Maria," Alfonso X el sabio.
No, 42 is titled "A virgen mui groriosa" which is, I think, the one you cite.
Someone may have the cd "Cantigas de Santa Maria," Alfonso X el Sabio, sung by Ensemble Gilles Binchois and soloists, Ambroisie label, 2005- I believe it includes a booklet with translations. Track 4.

Also cd "Miracles: 13th c. Spanish Songs in Praise of the Virgin Mary," 1997, Chandos label, track 4. It may have a booklet with translations.

Subject: RE: translate a cantiga?
From: peregrina
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 06:27 PM

Leeneia, if you can pm me with an e-mail address, or post an address in the thread, I'll send you a more-or-less translation

Subject: translate a cantiga?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 05:57 PM

Here are the words for a Cantiga de Santa Maria from the 13th C. We are going to play it tonight. Does anybody know what these words mean? Sorry about the hyphens, which align the words with notes.

Be warned: Many of the cantigas were pious folktales about miracles that happened to ordinary people, so if you see a word that doesn't seem to belong, such as 'German tourist,' it might still be right.

A Vir-gen mui gro-ri-o-sa, Re-y-nna es-pi-ri-tal,
dos que a-ma e ce-o-sa, ca non quer que fa-can mal.
D'est' un mi-ra-gre fre-mo-so, ond' a-ver-re-des sa-bor,
vos di-rey, que fez a Virg-gen Ma-dre de nos-tro Se-nor,
per-que ti-rou de gran fa-lia a un mui fallss' a-ma-dor
que a my-u-de cam-bia-va seus a-mo-res d'un en al.