BS: Rezko Guilty

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 03:30 PM

I messaged Art re the above post. FYI.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: GUEST,Ron Stevens
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 03:23 PM

Art - I happened upon this site by accident and discovered you here. I wonder if you remember me from the Quiet Knight days, during 1971-72 when I held the inflated title of "manager." I left to work for Michael Cooney and the Newport Folk Foundation's "Traveling Folk Festivals" (a short-lived, if noble venture).

Ron Stevens - [e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 08:46 AM

That is what makes them "true believers", Capt'n... And they make very good little foot soldiers...

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: kendall
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 07:50 AM

I'm surprised that so many people still believe the horse shit that the right wing cranks out.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 07:36 AM

Why, I heard that the only reason that Obama is running for president is so that he can pardon Rezko, then quit the job and the two of them can spend the rest of their lives doing dirty land deals...

(You8 didn'ty hear that, Bobert...)

No, okay, I didn't but with the Mc527's cranking up their smear campaigns it surely is one that they have thought of...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 09:46 PM

Not to fear, Rig. One can always make one up. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Riginslinger
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 09:38 PM

In any event, it would be a lot more exciting if some useful connection could be made between Obama and Rezko.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 08:56 PM

Uh...'cause he's a horse's ass?

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: kendall
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 08:46 PM

The Congressional Quarterly says that McCain voted with Bush 95% during the past year. That's enough for me to vote against him. Where does he get this "Maverick" crap?

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 06:07 PM

1100100

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Jim Lad
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 06:00 PM

Go on then. 99....

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 05:47 PM

Not to fear, Eb...

There aren't enough dirty tricks in the universe to cover up the Bush/McCian failed policies...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 05:39 PM

Tia, thank you.   I wish everyone would read that article, written by Robert Kennedy, Jr., no less. They needn't even believe it- IF they then go looking for more information.

What is really scary: IF "they" were that well organized and that criminal in 2004 I have no reason to believe that they won't be able to do the same thing in 2008...

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 05:27 PM

It's all they have for now, brucie...

But not to fear, there's more fuel in the swiftboaters tank and this is just the beginning...

Google up "American Survival, Inc." which is the organbization that is being paid to come up with several swiftboat fronts over the coming months... Some of the stuff they have thought of is purdy amusing... Like Obama's link to the Weather Underground... Doesn't mch matter that he was 7 years old at the time 'cause yer never to young to burn down ROTC buildings... Right??? That one is going to be fun...

No, what really is going to be fun is the first time that Obama is confronted by a swiftboater in front of cameras...

"learned a thing from Charley, don't ya know
better stay away from Copperhead Road"

Know what I mean... Kerry was a case study in how not to defend yourself... Obama ain't John Kerry... Heck, Bill Clinton couldn't get to him and the swiftboaters won't either...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 05:08 PM

Well, Rezco has been found guilty. So, the thread title is accurate.

The rest is just speculation.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 04:37 PM

Ya' know whhat I think of when I see the swiftboters here in Mudville with their rather juvenilistic conspiracy theories is Bob Dylan's words "Don't stand in the door ways and block up the halls, for the times they are a changing"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 03:43 PM

He's talkin' in tongues.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 03:41 PM

1) b) iii) 4) 101)

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 02:43 PM

Thanks, Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Jim Lad
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 02:27 PM

"Why just single out Obama?"
1) When the race had just got under way, I looked into all of the candidates to see which I would pick.
The Rezko ties came up immediately. So I had to discount him.
b) The candidate who sets himself up as being the only honest one in the bunch will always be a target. Look at your own feelings towards Stephen Harper.
iii) I told you what I thought of the other candidates and who my pick would be and the Pro Obama moderators deleted the thread. Remember that day? You PM'd me and I gave you my full answer by way of that thread and you never got to see it.

I won't do that again.
Oh and 4) I honestly cannot stand the guy. I can't change that. Those who feel the same way about Hillary probably get that.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 01:56 PM

"The New York Times declared that ''there is no evidence of vote theft or errors on a large scale.''"


Sorry. After all the claims that the NYT is such an impeachable souce that even it's editorials are to be taken as gospel ( as opposed to the WSJ), this statement declares the 2004 election to be fundamentaly sound.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 01:51 PM

Ebbie - here is THE article on that issue. A long read, but full of incredible (nauseating) info.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

Rolling Stone

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 12:59 PM

Have you ever found anything at all to be wrong with Hillary? I am trying to understand. Why just single out Obama?

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Jim Lad
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 12:51 PM

"Who says he's perfect?"

Em, er... gimme a second... Damn!
I knew it when I came in here.
Oh, I forget.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Art Thieme
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 12:15 PM

Jim,

You are correct---I "won't see it" because it is trivial and simply DOES NOT MATTER!

What matters is that Obama is a good and articulate man who we hope will wipe the doings of this heinous Bush administration's electoral thievery off the map.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 12:06 PM

As politicians go Obama seems relatively clean. I don't think that's unrealistic. Who says he's perfect?

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Art Thieme
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 12:03 PM

I grew up in Chicago and have watched the politics of that area unfold for a long time. (Check out the old 'They Came In The Middle Of The Night' thread here at Mudcat ;-) We watch it going down and can often see the humor in it---and in people trying to gain political footing by recounting the machinations of it as is happening in this thread.

I also grew up in an apartment on the second floor of a tall building. In the penthouse of that building lived a Chicago mafia outfit big-shot named Rocco Fischetti. He was killed gangland style in Florida while he was getting a haircut.

It is quite sad to me that I cannot, now, be considered as a candidate for President of the United States because of my connections to these sorry and dangerous people.

But I can live with it!!

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: heric
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 11:35 AM

ONE thread??

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 11:22 AM

Speaking of conspiracy- does anyone remember the thread/poster where a post was linked to the 2004 election? The theme was the various oddities and shenanigans of that particular election. I really would like to read it again but my mind has gone blank as to who, what, where AND when.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Jim Lad
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 11:19 AM

Like I said.
You are incapable of absorbing any information that taints your unrealistic view of Obama.
The facts are there and there is much more.
You just won't see it.
Patrick Fitzgerald will.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 10:53 AM

"Never underestimate the ability of the Democratic Party to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory."

Yeah. There's that to worry about for sure. I'd like to laugh at this point, but ya know . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: heric
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 10:21 AM

It's not much of a scandal - certainly nowhere near the level of McCain's Keating Five. Still it's one of the few insights we have as to the real world activities of this man. He has to do what he has to do to rise in politics. Must have a showcase home, I don't deny.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 10:08 AM

Peace

"May " be the next...

Never underestimate the ability of the Democratic Party to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.


Especially when the selling point of working WITH the opposition is far more substantially supported by the Republican candidate's record than by the Democrat's

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 10:05 AM

Have I mentioned that Obama will be the next President of the United States?

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 10:02 AM

The funny thing is, a-brroks, is that the same Repub attack PR that has tried to paint Obama as someone who has no positions on issues is the same Repub attack PR that now wants us to believe that he is some kinda crook???

Like Obama says, "It's just the politics of old..."

This is why John McCain is going to loose... People are sick of the politics of old and the more Rezko stories that the swiftboaters cann ***manufacture*** the worse off it will be for the Repubs...

But with their record, I reckon it's all they have... They certainly can't run on policies because they are on the wrong side of just about every concievable issue...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 09:46 AM

Jeepers, people have been saying for months that there is little or no substance to Senator Obama's positions and policy statements. I suppose it should be no wonder that there is no real substance to his scandals either. What - no starlets claiming to have sat upon his lap? No mysterious briefcases full of unmarked bills? As Santa would say, "Bah, Humbug!"

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: heric
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 09:32 AM

or anyone in that sewer of corruption called Washington, DC.

I trust he's read up on the Duke Cunningham story.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 09:29 AM

How many Iraqis died as a result of this transaction, bb???

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: heric
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 09:25 AM

" I'll be honest with you, that, on the couple of occasions that it came up, he gave me assurances that ..... he was not doing anything wrong."

hmmm. He'd better be careful when talking to Chavez or Ahmadinejad.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 09:02 AM

Bobert,

I think that one might also say

"Now I know that folks would like to read something very sinister into what Bush did but what he did was good business..."

about a number of actions that you and others have been critical of.....


So it is ok now???

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Riginslinger
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 08:41 AM

We've taken Fox News out of the loop as an unreliable source, but why would anybody take the Chicago Tribune seriously?

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 08:33 AM

Okay, whet we have here is a good business deal in which both parties benefited... Your assertion, Jim, that Rezko got the short end of the stick is the crux of your argument is subjective...

People enter into thse kinds of land deals all the time... I did it myself a couple years ago... If a large parcial of property come on the market it is not uncommon for folks to buy it and split it... It's good business if each party gets out of the deal what they might have had to pay more for had the propert been subdivided prior to being offered and each piece being sold seperately...

If you look at housing developement accross the3 country you usually start with a large piece, which can be purchased cheaper on a per acre basis, then chop it up and each lot becomes expensive as compared to the original per acre price...

In developement it's kind the opposite of an "assmblage" where you assemble several pieces in an developed area and offer them as one. When this is done the per acre price goes up as opposed to what happens when you buy a large piece of property and subdivide...

Econ 101, pure and simple...

Now I know that folks would like to read something very sinister into what Obama did but what he did was good business... Who is to say whether or not Rezko was happy with his side of the deal at the time it was made???

Now if you, Jim, have evidence that Rezko knowingly took a loss for no other reason that gaining influence, plus evidence that Obama made decisions favorable to Rezko in exchange, then you have a story...

Right now you have a conspiracy theory that, frankly, is very weak...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 08:33 AM

My word is good. I followed Jim Lad's link. It took some work to get past the Fox News rha-rah on the page, and find a link to actual information, but i did. Here it is, unedited, from the Chicago Tribune. sorry this is a long paste, but I want everyone to see what Jim Lad steered us to, so we can all judge the level of malfeasance....
*****************************************************************
" Antoin "Tony" Rezko is a well-regarded, politically connected housing developer, Barack Obama an up-and-coming community organizer. After Obama is named president of the Harvard Law Review, Rezko offers Obama a job building inner-city homes with his Rezmar Corp. Obama declines, but a friendship and political alliance begins.   The Obamas and Rezkos dined occasionally and the Obamas once spent a day at the Rezkos' Lake Geneva retreat.

In subsequent years, Rezko will help bankroll Obama's campaigns, except his presidential bid.

At Rezko's request, Obama drops in at a business meeting for Middle Eastern bankers. The New York Times has cited Rezko business partners who thought Rezko was seeking to impress the foreign guests, potential investors in his business ventures. Obama says he could recall only one instance when he and Rezko discussed recommendations for appointments to state jobs, boards or commissions.

Obama is sworn in to the U.S. Senate. Bolstered by payments for his best-selling autobiography and advances for future books, the Obamas' combined income topped $1.67 million. They go home-shopping and are drawn to a 96-year-old, South Side Georgian revival home with four fireplaces, glass-door bookcases fashioned from Honduran mahogany and a wine cellar with space for 1,000 bottles. The house and the adjoining yard had been owned as a single property. But now the owners are listing them separately, asking $1.95 million for the house and $625,000 for the garden lot. Obama disclosed in the March interview that someone else already had an option to buy the garden lot. But he said Rezko took over that option after Rezko learned Obama was bidding for the house. Obama said he knew next to nothing about those transactions and does not recall when he learned that Rezko was interested in buying the side lot—or even how Rezko learned it was for sale. But they talked about the upcoming sales. "He said, 'I might be interested,'." Obama recalled. "My response was, 'Well, that would be fine.'." Obama added: "This is an area where I can see a lapse in judgment."

Between Jan. 15 and Jan. 23, Obama submits three bids: $1.3 million on Jan. 15; $1.5 million on Jan. 21; and $1.65 million on Jan. 23. He told the Tribune that he does not recall when he learned that Rezko was interested in buying the side lot, or how Rezko learned of the sale. But Obama raised the possibility that he was the first to bring the lot to Rezko's attention. The senator's campaign provided a copy of a previously released e-mail from the sellers. In response to questions from the Obama campaign, the sellers agreed that they "did not offer or give the Obamas a 'discount' on the house price" because Rezko paid their asking price for the yard. "Tony asked me during the course of one of these conversations why I might not be interested in buying the lot and keep the property intact. And I said that, you know, it wasn't worth it to us to spend an extra $600,000 or so on a lot next door when Michelle and I were really interested in the house. So, he said, 'Well, I might be interested in purchasing the lot.' And my response was, 'That would be fine.' "And my thinking at the time, and this is just to sort of flag this, this is an area where I can see sort of a lapse in judgment. Where I could have said, 'You know, I'm not sure that's a great idea.' But my view at the time when he expressed an interest was that he was a developer in this area that owned lots, that he thought it was going to be a good investment. And my interest, or my motivation was here's somebody that I knew who, if this lot was being developed, it'd be better to have somebody who knew, who I knew, who you know would give me schedules, keep me apprised of what was taking place and so forth. So I didn't object."

At some point before the sale closes, Obama tours the property with Rezko for 15 to 30 minutes, a fact the Obama campaign disclosed this February. The campaign said Obama wanted Rezko's opinion of the property because Rezko was a real estate developer in the area. In previous accounts of the purchase, Obama did not divulge the tour. In 2006, he told the Tribune that he recalled talking to Rezko about the potential home purchase "either at an event or some conversation we had where they mentioned to me that they either knew the property or knew the developer or something like that. …I actually asked him what he thought of the house and he thought it was a good house. And I said, 'I'm looking at putting in a bid on it.' And from that point on I just worked through my real estate broker, purchased the property. "He said, 'I'd be willing to go inside and take a look,'." Obama recalled. He said in the March interview that he simply didn't disclose the walk-through previously because he did not feel the information was salient and insisted the tour didn't mean he and Rezko coordinated their purchases. "The fact that he had taken a physical tour was not something that I thought was new information."

In the months preceding Obama's June 2005 purchase of his home, Rezko had already become a controversial figure in Chicago and Illinois politics. In March 2005, for example, city officials alleged that a minority contractor at O'Hare International Airport acted as a front for a Rezko firm. Then in May, Rezko reportedly was among several to receive Cook County grand jury subpoenas in a joint county-state investigation of jobs and campaign contributions in Blagojevich's administration. Subsequent reports showed a federal grand jury asked the state teachers' pension system for records involving Rezko and other political insiders. Obama said he was aware of the growing controversies. "I started reading the reports that were surfacing and — I'll be honest with you, that, on the couple of occasions that it came up, he gave me assurances that ..... he was not doing anything wrong. And that it wasn't a problem. And there's not doubt that, as things evolved, I became more concerned. But again, this is somebody who, in his interactions with me, had always been above board, and so, my instinct was to believe him." And, Obama added, "at that time, the news around Rezko's problems had not elevated to the levels that they did later."
***************************************************************

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 08:03 AM

I knew that if I gave you the information (and I did)...

But you didn't. That example you came up with just doesn't stand up. There's some kind of accusation there, but nothing that amounts to clear proof of wrongdoing by Obama.

He pays less than the asking price - he's receiving a bribe. He pays more than what's understood to be the market price - he's giving a bribe.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Jim Lad
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 02:19 AM

The above is only one example of Obama's dealings with Rezko but it's one that has set alarm bells off for me since I first read about it and here's why.
If I stole a bike, every time I threw my leg over the crossbar, I'd remember how I got it.
Consequently, I wouldn't end up riding the damn thing at all and I'm sure most of you would feel the same way.
But the Obamas go home to that house every night and it doesn't seem to bother them. That fact in itself creeps me out but there is more.

Much of the money Rezko was pilfering came from pension funds.
Each time he extorted money a portion of it was put into the campaign funds for Governor Rod Blagojevich ( Blah-Goy-O-Vitch) & Senator Obama.
(Campaign fund.. AKA... The perfect money laundering facility.)
Specific individuals were directed to convey these funds and the list of contributors for both men is identical.

The thought that some poor schmuck puts himself through school, works hard all his life just to put a roof over his head and food on the table only to to see the Rezkos & Obamas lick the cream off his pension before he even gets to retire, burns a hole in my gut.

You will forgive me if I do not share the same enthusiasm as you do for your messiah.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Jim Lad
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 01:11 AM

Sure but let me deal with this one first... Hypocrites, by their very nature, never really make it clear that they're hypocrites.

Two Doctors (Married I presume) owned a mansion on two lots.
The house was for sale.
Mr. & Mrs. Obama could not afford the one and a half million price tag.
The couple would not sell the house separately from the other lot because without it, there were no grounds.
The Rezkos stepped in and the couple agreed to sell to both families.
The Obamas paying for the house (about $300.000 below market price) & the Rezkos paying for the grounds (now known as the undeveloped, adjacent lot) at a greatly inflated price.
In effect, they bought the grounds for the Obamas.
Rezko was already under indictment when this deal was being made.
Later, when the questions started coming up about the house, the Obamas bought a strip of that land.
They used their connections in city hall to get planning permission and subdivided the lot.
The Obamas paid Rezko $64.000 over the appraised value for that strip of land.
Some perceive that $64.000 as hush money for Tony Rezko. Mr. Fitzgerald will decide whether it warrants investigation.
Obama paid for planning permission and the plans for the fence & Rezko paid for the materials & construction.

Now, Mr. Obama spun his way out of that but at best the Chicago Media called it "Business as Usual" for the political machine they call "The Combine" in Chicago.
Recently, when Obama released his tax statements, he inadvertently left his address (the usually black those out) in plain view on one of those forms.
One enterprising blogger immediately looked up the address on the satellite imagery maps and came up with before and after shots for the property.
Here are some of the findings.
The house and adjacent lot are completely surrounded by one common wall.
Even after the fence was erected, the only access to the adjacent lot is through the front gate of the Obamas' lot.
The Obamas paid for the upkeep of those grounds.
Had they not built the fence, they wouldn't have been able to walk around the perimeter of their own home.
Now: There exists a law that basically says .. if you, in a position of power such as a politician, accept a gift or a favour and the courts deem that the value is so high as to be unreasonably generous then there is no need to uncover whatever favour has been asked in return. It's called Reasonable Practise or something like that and is used quite frequently where corrupt politicians are concerned.
But that's only what we know.
Right now, Mr. Rezko is sitting in jail with a total of 300 years in prison looking him straight in the eye.
Some of his cohorts are there too and Patrick Fitzgerald will talk to whichever one has the most to offer.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Amos
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 12:24 AM

I don't get the Rezko thing.

What exactly was the connection between Rezko' malfeasance and Obama's land?

Maybe Jim Lad, who is up on all this, could spell it out for me. Can you?

Whho did what when?

I just don't get the deal here.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 12:11 AM

"a candidate who actually had a chance of winning"

Obama has an excellent chance.

Far better than Hillary ever had--since she refused to admit she was wrong in authorizing Bush to use force against Iraq--and then efficiently went about otherwise poisoning the well she intended to drink from in the fall.

Obama has an excellent chance---if people who claim to be in favor of separation of church and state, against the Iraq war, for a reform of health care, etc. come out and vote for him.

Unless they want to make it clear they are hypocrites.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: heric
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 10:30 PM

If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance.


George Bernard Shaw said that.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 10:05 PM

Maybe they're really quoting Jimmy Hoffa, and they just got the name wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 09:56 PM

That's not the Abraham Lincoln I know.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 09:48 PM

The language in the link to rezkowatch uses the same rhetoric as has been shown here by one or two people. No substance. Not any allegations even, really, just smarmy sneers.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 09:35 PM

"'Show me a man who has no skeletons in his closet, and I'll show you a man who has never done anything.' Abraham Lincoln."


               And that describes Barack Obama completely, until the media finally began to do it's job and found Reverend Wright, Rezko, William Ayers, and etc. If they'd been on the ball earlier, the Democrats would have a candidate who actually had a chance of winning.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 09:29 PM

Hannibal Lecter.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: kendall
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 09:28 PM

"Show me a man who has no skeletons in his closet, and I'll show you a man who has never done anything." Abraham Lincoln.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 09:10 PM

"This is what drives those who are not for Obama absolutely nuts."

Don't lead with your chin . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 08:56 PM

This is so funny.
I knew that if I gave you the information (and I did) you would be incapable of absorbing it. (and you are)
It doesn't fit your schema.
This is what drives those who are not for Obama absolutely nuts.
Ah well.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 08:10 PM

Well, it appears that not only is there no smoking gun but there is no body either... Hmmmmmmmmmm???

As fir Bush's 2nd DUI, I hadn't heard about that one... The first one, if I am not mistaken, was defended by his bud, Gonzalez... Seema the two of them go way back...

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 08:02 PM

Not exactly a smoking gun in that link Ebbie gave us. A doctor (not Rezko) sold Obama a bit of land for less than the initial asking price.

Big deal. My son bought his house for a good bit less than the initial asking price.

That's what happens in property deals. People ask for more than they are actually willing to accept.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: kendall
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:44 PM

George W Bush was convicted of oui in Maine. I understand it was the second time. When he was asked if he had used alcohol after 1976, he lied and said no.
A certain lawyer here uncovered the conviction and it appeared in the Portland Press Herald in 2000 during the campaign for president. The lawyer's name is Tom Connoly, and he got death threats from Bush supporters for him and his family. It was not a big expose' because the Bushs are nobility here and the Portland papers are republican.

It all pales into nothing compared to his lies about Iraq which have led to the deaths of at least ten thousand Iraqis.

Kudos to Scott McLellan for having the guts to expose this creep for what he is!

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:39 PM

Ya know, Jim and I are friends more often than not. I would never call him that. Out to lunch on this issue though he is, he's a good guy the other 99.9% of the time. And I know you're foolin' around, too, Bobert, because I feel the same way about you. FYI.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:36 PM

Now wait just a danged minute here... Just 'cause Mad-Lad is mad at Obama ain't no reason to go callin' him a Puruvian bastard... I mean, lets show a little claas here, gang...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:36 PM

Start here.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:29 PM

That was a remark WC made to the IRS in 1945 or 1946 (been years since I saw the movie "WC Fields and Me"). I always liked his work and I loved that movie. He also told the IRS, when they asked about him claiming about 20 cases of gin as a business expense write off: "Yes. I'm a comedian. And when I'm not drunk I'm not funny."

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:23 PM

I think I like the Peruvian bastards better than the Bolivian ones, Peace. Does that make it better? :)

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:17 PM

Ebbie: you are a trouble maker. You will mess up this thread if you insist on getting factual.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:12 PM

BTW, that's paraphrased from WC Fields.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:12 PM

It was to a home for Peruvian bastards. He gave to the Bolivian bastards last year.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:09 PM

Now somebody needs to look into the charity to which Obama donated the money. Hopefully, it wasn't Reverend Wright's church.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:05 PM

Here is one account of what actually transpired.

8 Things to Know about the Obama/Rezko Connection

You know, it has been my observation - and experience - that the person(s) who see wrongdoing in every alley are not people one wishes to cultivate.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 05:16 PM

Jim, why don't you use CAPS-LOCK so we could see your point better?

You know, your comments about music are far more interesting than your comments about politicians.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 05:16 PM

"If I show you will you allow yourself to believe it?"

Yes, I promise I will.

Now please show us.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 05:07 PM

If I show you will you allow yourself to believe it?

I doubt it.

By accepting the gift from Rezko, Obama broke the law.
The law works that way for the precise reason that I explained to you earlier.
It's enough just to find the bribe.
The courts don't need to know what the pay off was for.
A bit like charging someone with murder when all you have is a blood stain.
"Show me enough blood & I don't need to see a body".

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 04:39 PM

Another of my closest friends has at times been rude, has trespassed, has messed with other folks property and had fits where he just didn't want to be around anyone... His name is

...Jesus Christ...

But nevermind that, I am completely with TIA... Where exactly is the beef??? You know, the evidence, like in "Exhibit A"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 04:20 PM

Trust me, pal, there's more than enough shit to go around.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 04:20 PM

Well, Hillary actually hangs out with the following guy, so I guess she'd be just as bad as Obama, huh? Maybe even worse?

"RECORDS SET

- The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates*
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- Second president accused of rape**
- First first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund.
- First president to be held in contempt of court
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad
- First president disbarred from the US Supreme Court and a state court"

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 04:09 PM

"The evidence is all there.
Has been all along.
You've been told about it by others and ignored it."

Where exactly is "there".
Confront me with some actual evidence, and I promise, I will not ignore it.
Seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 03:45 PM

The evidence is all there.
Has been all along.
You've been told about it by others and ignored it.
It is one of the reasons why so many have been against Obama all along.
It was one of the first things I discovered when trying to choose between the Democratic candidates.
Like most, I am utterly mind blown by his supporters' ability to put this stuff away.
Even when confronted with the evidence they say "Where's the evidence?".
I can't debate with that kind of skewed logic.
No-one can.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 03:17 PM

This is pure unaltered junk, Jim Lad... You have no evidence whatsoever to link Obama to any crime other than he admittedly knows the guy and purchased some land from the guy???

Where exactly is the beef here, pal, other than stuff you wished that Obama had done???

Tell ya what... This is a true story... Back 'round 1969 a buddy of mine, Fred Shorter, who I had organized anti-war stuff with and who was a close friend had a little run in with Dwayne Dettman, who was a looney... So one night Dwayne was accross the street from Fred's apartment in Richmond, Va. yelling and carrying on about how Fred was this and Fred was that and after a couple hours of this crap Fred went outside and shot Dwayne Dettman dead...

Well, the news spread like wildfire... Yeah, my buddy Fred Shorter shot Dwayne Dettmen dead!!!

Now here's the catch... Yeah, Fred was my friend and I was sho nuff bummed out by the entire episode but...

...I didn't shoot Dwayne Dettman and nor I know that Fred was going to shoot the guy but if I use Jim Lad logic then...

...I'm a cold blooded killer!!!???!!!...

Now one thing about politcans is that they know one heck of a lot more people than the average guy so the chances are even greater that a politican will know someone who has committed a crime but knowing someone who commits a crime is not a crime...

Unless we employ Jim Lad logic and I guess if we were to apply that logic to the genarl population then we'd all have to be locked up...

Tell ya what, Jim, ol' son... When you have evidence that Obama has committed a crime, get back to us... Until then, other than a couple wingnuts here, you are just sounding like sour grapes...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 02:32 PM

All sounds remarkably vague. When there is some kind of indication that Obama has actually done anything wrong I am sure that Jim Lad will let us know.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 12:59 PM

Heh heh!
Ah Bruce.
Yes Tia.
There is plenty of documentation.
Plenty of court documents too.
All in all, quite the list of dirty deeds.
This case started with some fairly low ranking, party insiders being convicted then rolling over on the big wigs.
The Rezko trial is the one that's supposed to crack them all.
That is why this is so significant.
Tony Rezko's claws reach right into the West Wing.
He has corrupted or used corrupt politicians on both sides.
He is the one who got Obama started but to whom the media now refers as being "Obama's one time associate"
And what was Obama's response to the verdict?
"This is not the Tony I know."
Sound familiar?
This is not the Reverend Wright I know.
This is not the Father What's his Face I know.
This is not the Grandmother I know.
This is not the (insert name here) I know.
Who's next?
Michelle?

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 12:41 PM

"You'd better hope he doesn't sing."

If he does, will this thread be moved above the line?

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 12:32 PM

Documentation?

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 12:06 PM

Yeah, you're right of course.
Obama doesn't even know the guy.
Just some dude who bought a parcel of land for him.
And this U.S. Attorney guy?
Fitzgerald?
Just some ambulance chaser looking to make a name for himself.

Just to give you an idea of how deep this one goes... There was a plan afoot to get Patrick Fitzgerald removed from his position to prevent the Rezko trial for taking place.
Romney was in on it.
The conspiracy crosses party lines.
Expect the governor of Illinois to step down within a week or two.
Rezko chose to begin his sentence immediately rather than wait for sentencing.
He's looking at a lifetime in jail and Fitzgerald is all ears.
You'd better hope he doesn't sing.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 11:51 AM

First of all, other than Obama detracters, very few folks know who this guy is...

Second of all, who cares???

What exactly has Obama done wrong??? Knowing a criminal??? Shoot, if that is the bar for which we measure the qualifications to be elected president then I doubt if there is anyone of the constitutional age to become president who doesn't know a criminal...

I mean, lets get real here... This is a non-story that folks who just happen to love the policies of Bush/McCain have invented to be a distraction... Nothing more... Nothing less...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 11:51 AM

DANG. Yes I can.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 11:50 AM

www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html


Go to that site. (I can't hot-link it.)

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: pdq
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 11:43 AM

"Mr. Bush had an arrest and conviction for DUI/DWI"

Prove that one also. I believe he was given a warning for driving to slow on a rural country road. In the car with him were tennis ace Newcomb and their respective wives. The cop did not think he was badly impaired and let him drive home.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: artbrooks
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 11:37 AM

Mr. Bush had an arrest and conviction for DUI/DWI, some 20 years before his election. I am unaware of anything else. An ignorant jerk, yes, but "a convicted crook" is a bit of an exaggeration.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 11:25 AM

Rezko' story is interesting but in my opinion he was just another long time political operator who got sloppy and is now being forced to pay the price.

I don't think there is much of a case for saying that Obama is involved in Rezko's indiscretions but I fully expect that those who would like to see Obama defeated in the fall will try to raise that argument, and if they are ignored I would expect them to shout louder, and maybe even hold their breath.

There are, in contrast, major issues that should be discussed and debated in the Presidential Campaign such as the economy, the war in Iraq, medical insurance, the environment to name a few.

Charley Noble

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: pdq
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 11:25 AM

"George Bush was a convicted crook before HE was elected"

When was he convicted? What were the charges? What was the punishment?

The statement is unequivocal and therefore needs to be supported. It was placed into this discussion as a fact and not as an opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 10:11 AM

Well, Jim, you ARE talking about the next President of the United States. I figure it a well-thoughtout plan on the part of Rezko to get Obama elected and then--are you ready for this?--he can receive a Presidential pardon.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 09:16 AM

"You will never know what Obama did or was to do in return.
That is the nature of the beast.
The dirty deed never sees the light of day."

In other words, you have absolutely no evidence of anything, but are willing to assume there has been some crime by Obama. Hmmm. Little bit of prejudice (not necessarily racial) is clearly showing.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Ron Davies
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 08:13 AM

Ah, yes, the conspiracy theory du jour. Fresh merchandise for "Smears R Us"?   Good thing--the rest of it is rather stale.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 08:10 AM

Still, it was pretty crafty on somebody's part to keep the Rezko verdict out of the public eye untill after the last primaries were over. I wonder who was behind that, Tony Rezko maybe, and what does he expect in return?

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: kendall
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:36 AM

And how many crooks have been unearthed in other politician's lives? George Bush was a convicted crook before HE was elected.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Ron Davies
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:25 AM

"best friend". Right. Absolutely. No question.

As I recall, this is the same poster who predicted it would be Romney vs Hillary--and Romney would win.

Certainly a wonderful track record of calm, well-researched argument.

I think we know how seriously to take anything from this source.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 03:32 AM

I've tried to explain it for you a little better but I really am wondering if you're pulling my leg about not knowing about Rezko.
People have been screaming at Obama supporters for months, warning them about this.

It's really quite a fascinating study, this Obama thing.
No matter whom he associates himself with or what kinds of shady deals he pulls, Senator Obama is not to blame.
I remember when Teflon first hit the market. They had to take about half the frying pans back because the no stick coating didn't stick.
Well newsflash. Still doesn't. Just peels off slower, that's all.
To those who do not yet understand the significance of this conviction as it relates to Obama, let me at least try to enlighten you.
Mr. Rezko has been convicted.
It's official now.
He is what is known in political circles as an "Influence Peddler".
That means, he gives you gifts-money, you do him favors.
Nothing is done for nothing.
I help you pay for your house (Buy the grounds and give you sole access and free use thereof) & you do something for me.
You will never know what Obama did or was to do in return.
That is the nature of the beast.
The dirty deed never sees the light of day.
Whatever Mr. Obama did or was to do for Mr. Rezko we will probably never know.
But that is of absolutely no consequence.
Why?
Because Mr. Rezko has been convicted & Mr. Obama is beholding to him.
Had he been convicted before Mr. Obama threw his hat in the ring, he (Obama) would never have qualified under his own party's rules.
So now we wait & watch for the next move.
Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton holds on to her delegates because (As many super delegates are murmuring) "Hey! You never know".
And John McCain? He get's to say what Hillary never could (thanks to the jury).
That Mr. Obama's best friend & benefactor is a lying, thieving crook.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 01:18 AM

Tony Rezko is one of Obama's closest friends.
The fact that you know nothing of the case says a couple of things.
1) You're avid Obama fans and not inclined to go looking for information that would soil your vision of him.
2) The mainstream media has refused to say anything bad about Obama.

Obama allowed this convicted fraudster to purchase the grounds to his home for him while Rezko was already under indictment.
You really should know this stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: artbrooks
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 12:54 AM

Senator Obama knew, and even bought some property from, a man who has been convicted on a number of charges of corruption. OK. I once knew, and even borrowed a quarter from, a guy who could light farts. I can't honestly say that I ever tried lighting a fart. Sounds like much the same relationship to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 11:29 PM

Take your time. I will go to bed, and read your thoroughly reasonable and dispassionate response in the morning.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 11:08 PM

I will even hold my breath.   UUUUHHHHHHP.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 11:07 PM

Now answer the question. If you can...

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 11:01 PM

TIA says: "I am totally obtuse"

Well, he/she/it has finally made a correct statement. Years in coming, unfortunately.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 10:26 PM

I am totally obtuse. Please (serioulsy) explaim to me Obama's transgression in this. Thanks in advance.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 09:54 PM

Yeah, it is funny, Jim Lad. Will Tony Rezco be running Obama from the inside?

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:28 PM

L.A. Times story.

A federal jury today convicted developer Antoin "Tony" Rezko of corruption charges for trading on his clout as a top adviser and fundraiser to Gov. Rod Blagojevich.

Rezko's guilty verdict on 16 of 24 corruption counts could have broad repercussions for Blagojevich, who made Rezko a central player in his cabinet. It could also prove a political liability for U.S. Sen. Barack Obama, who once counted Rezko as a friend and fundraiser, as the likely Democratic presidential nominee heads into the general election campaign against Republican John McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: michaelr
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:22 PM

???

Subject: BS: Rezko Guilty
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:08 PM

The jury refused to hand down the verdict until Obama was nominated.
This is just too funny.