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BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 05 Jul 08 - 03:58 PM Diebold voting machines, like all of their products such as ATMs, ere constantly being improved. harking back to problems with early models doesn't contribute to voting solutions (or to the petroleum contracts between integrated oil companies and the Iraqi government(s). |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Jul 08 - 01:13 PM I'm sure Mugabe would have had a lot less hassle fixing his selection if he'd had Diebold machines in place. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 05 Jul 08 - 01:08 PM Okay, nationalize the oil companies- for example like Saudi Arabia, Indonesia and Mexico- what have you gained? Iran is a member of OPEC and very happy with that. Iraq will return in full to the OPEC fold. Not that it matters, the oil price is set by supply and demand. Indonesia and Mexico to an extent subsidize petroleum to their citizens, but this lowers government income. Venezuela subsidizes oil to Venezuelans, and may make a deal with Morales of Bolivia, but sells at market prices to everyone else. Iran and Iraq are members of OPEC, and seem happy with that, letting supply and demand determine the income they get (or will get) from their petroleum exports. Lower prices might be offered to their citizens, but doesn't help to secure lower prices for anyone else. Bolivia is showing signs of breaking up under Morales' rule. Both Chavez and Morales must modify their 'neoleftist' agendas or they will be ousted. They have little effect on the world stage. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Donuel Date: 05 Jul 08 - 11:15 AM The Hugo Chavez national oil policy is what neocons fear. Hugo talked to Iran and I bet dollars to donuts that he has communicated with Iraqi leaders about a distribution of oil wealth that serves the people of an oil rich nation best. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Riginslinger Date: 04 Jul 08 - 10:47 PM Frankly, I think "no bid," or "single source" contracts are always a problem, but I would agree, under the circumstances, there's probably no other way they could have gone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 04 Jul 08 - 10:43 PM The contracts, when awarded, will go to major integrated oil companies, since they are the ones who can handle exploration, repair, expansion, refining, pipelining tankerage, and marketing. The companies named, plus a few others, have the expertise and the personnel. The contracts are logical; I hope it will be possible to implement them. The 'no bid' claim is not pertinent to the situation. The alternative would be Lukoil, the Russian major. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Riginslinger Date: 04 Jul 08 - 10:26 PM "Who will buy the security?" Blackwater and others are in the market to the highest bidder. If the oil companies think they can pay the freight and still make obscene profits, I wouldn't doubt for a minute that they'll do it. The losers in that scenario are the Iraqi people, but nobody in this whole long process has demonstrated any compulsion to care about them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Donuel Date: 04 Jul 08 - 11:32 AM Seymour Hisch says we are already attacking Iran covertly. See popular views on Bush thread by 'Amos' Die bold is only 1/3 of the problem. There is also Sequoia see Hacking Democracy - a short documentary. Buch and Cheney wanted the no bid contracts finalized. THats why they went over there last month. The IRaq Congress will not pass laws to do it legally. Cheney has been yelling at them for a year to get Ur done. IT appears to me.... The Bush group merely made a press release regarding no bid contracts being awarded to US oil companies. And that is the best the Bush team could do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 03 Jul 08 - 03:22 PM Agreed, Iraq is an artificial creation. I would hope that some sort of loose federation is possible, but break-up is a possibility. The Shias hane more in common with Iran, but the Bagdad and Kurdish business men don't like the strong Muslim religious bosses there. The Kurds are semi-independent now, but their militants could cause trouble with Turkey. The devolvement into provincial management promoted in the paper I linked recognizes the inevitable. Who will buy the security? An interesting question. The U. S. government has been paying private concerns for part of it. A portion of the billions being generated for Iraq could be used for payment (Just what is happening to the money now?- hard to find a clear answer). Would a change to Democratic control in Washington mean that U. S. troops will leave within a year or two? I doubt it. All bets are off if Israel and/or the U. S. attack Iran. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Ron Davies Date: 02 Jul 08 - 11:09 PM Developments are likely to go ahead, all right--if violence does not go up. Certainly in "Kurdistan", if nowhere else, there will be increasing development. The Kurds already have quite a few separate contracts with oil firms--against the wishes of the "national" government. But as to whether there will ever be an "Iraq" petroleum law, that's questionable. So we would see the continuing de facto breakup of Iraq--which was an extremely artificial entity to begin with. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Riginslinger Date: 02 Jul 08 - 10:36 PM "Added to which, the continuing violence--down--but not to a comfortable level--is causing cold feet among many oil firms. And the "announcement" is couched in such complex language that these firms are still trying to find out what exactly is being offered." Looking at it from a purely cynical point of view, the oil companies could buy the security they need, one might wonder if it would cost more than the oil is actually worth. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 01 Jul 08 - 11:58 PM This paper outlines the Iraqi oil fields (with map), their current status, and some data on reserves, and considers the political divisions under the new constitution. The oil fields (and reserves) extend in a belt from the north to the south of Iraq, and will be a management concern of the regional and provincial governments. The object is to distribute the fruits fairly and equitably among the provinces and their peoples. Whether and just how this will be accomplished remains to be seen. Table I breaks down present production potential of 2.5 million bbl/day by provinces. Note esp. Kirkuk, Basra and East Bagdad. Basra, followed by Kirkuk, have the most reserves. The northern folded zone (complex geology) centered on Kirkuk will be harder to develop. Current production has been restored to 2.0-2.3 million bbl/day. The concerns voiced by Ron Davies are valid, but I think general agreements allowing development to go ahead will come fairly soon (as oil deals go, within two years is my guess). |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 01 Jul 08 - 11:15 PM Die Bold... Hmmm... they have Military Contracts now? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 01 Jul 08 - 10:51 PM That's Diebold, of course. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 01 Jul 08 - 10:49 PM Voting machines are a very small part of this company's products. They are big in ATM and deposit automation, and security devices. They are a leader in financial self-service devices, if not the largest. Quite a change from the old safe and vault company started way back in 1859. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Ron Davies Date: 01 Jul 08 - 10:48 PM As usual on such threads, there's more heat than light--from many parties. Many large fields are not included. There is no petroleum law in place--and the Iraqi government is trying to jump-start the program artificially--knowing full well that there will be no petroleum law until the Kurds' interests are taken into account--which may be never--since the Kurds in fact don't want to be part of "Iraq". Added to which, the continuing violence--down--but not to a comfortable level--is causing cold feet among many oil firms. And the "announcement" is couched in such complex language that these firms are still trying to find out what exactly is being offered. Sometimes it seems that political threads attract many who believe in the old adage: "When in danger, when in doubt...." |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 01 Jul 08 - 09:21 PM "It DOESN'T MATTER WHO YOU VOTE FOR, the government ALWAYS gets in" Yep! - Now you are starting to understand the Aussie mentality! :-) "Oz uses Diebold now if I am not mistaken." Absolutely mistaken for voting - but many bank ATMs ARE Diebold... We use printed pieces of paper (separate papers for Lower & Upper Houses) and mark numbers in the boxes - these are ALL hand counted - usually sufficent are counted in about 4-5 hours (BY HAND!!!) to decide the outcome on the night of voting! (Who NEEDS machines - or trusts them?!) - we have (optional in some cases!) Preference Voting - in the Senate it is a form of Optional Preferential Proportional representation - Quotas allocated based on percentages of the vote gained and then passed on to other party members. It's simpler to look it up than ramble on here for ages... :-) WE LIKE IT THOUGH! Apart from the "Donkey Vote" - where the paper is numbered from top to bottom - it mostly works - due to the preferences - and the positions on the paper are decided by a random draw - We Aussies LOVE our Gambling! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 01 Jul 08 - 08:46 PM Saudi Aramco also may obtain service contracts, since they have a large pool of expertise. At present, in partnership with Exxon, they are upgrading the Chinese Fujian refinery. With Total, they are building the state-of-the-art Jubail Refinery (Three more are planned, partners not yet known). Any discussion of major oil companies must include them as well as Sinopec and Petrochina, ENI of Italy, Conoco-Phillips, Lukoil of Russia, and several others. Royal Dutch Shell is the largest employer, with 104,000; Total-95,000; Exxon-Mobil-83,000; BP-97,600; Chevron-56,000; Saudi Aramco-52,000. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Teribus Date: 01 Jul 08 - 06:58 PM Not me SRS, I never complained about the terminals in the first place. It just seems odd that the left only complain about Diebold Terminals when they don't get the result that they want. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 01 Jul 08 - 05:33 PM The possibility that Bush and the Israelis may attack Iran scares me too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 01 Jul 08 - 05:28 PM The major Dutch, French and British international concerns, as well as Exxon-Mobil and probably Chevron, of course are the most qualified to rebuild and strengthen the Iraqi oil programs. These companies have the expertise, and the large numbers of trained geologists, engineers, technicians and supply specialists needed to expand and manage the fields, construct modern onsite refineries and get the hydrocarbons into the pipeline and tanker chain- as well as train Iraqis as professionals and managers, now that increasing numbers of Iraqi students are once again receiving technical education. Of course the other possibility is Lukoil, the Russian giant who had negotiated contracts with Saddam Hussein's government, possibly in cooperation with China. Now would that be preferable? They probably will get a piece of the action, but will not control the development. Before and during Saddam Hussein' rule, Iraqi personnel were trained in American and British universities, but these people have retired, died, or moved out of the country. Iraqi students studying in fields related to hydrocarbon production and transportation are again at American and Canadian Universities, as well as the University center in Qatar and elsewhere, but it is too soon for them to be an important factor in guiding their petroleum industry. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Jul 08 - 05:11 PM He may not, but you certainly will. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Teribus Date: 01 Jul 08 - 05:02 PM Diebold Donuel? Diebold? The significance of which is? Diebold terminals were used in 2006 US mid-term elections were they not? So they will more than likely be used in the forthcoming 2008 Presidential Election. You will of course vociferously denounce the result as fraudulent if Obama wins? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Jul 08 - 04:47 PM You thought Diane Rehm's show this morning was something, you should have listened to Terry Gross' Fresh Air yesterday. Seymour Hersh had some really scary stuff about how Dubya is still trying to attack Iran.
SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Donuel Date: 01 Jul 08 - 01:38 PM Oz uses Diebold now if I am not mistaken. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 01 Jul 08 - 01:34 PM ""Vter turn out in Australia is about 99.9999%..."" But then, as I uderstand it, it's a punishable offence not to vote in Oz, isn't it Foolestroupe? So no real pat on the back there, no matter which government you got. It DOESN'T MATTER WHO YOU VOTE FOR, the government ALWAYS get's in. Now, About this revolution.........? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Donuel Date: 01 Jul 08 - 12:51 PM Teribus, to decree that certain oil companies will get a no bid contract on Iraq oil even before Iraq has made any laws regarding post Saddam oil rights, displays more bravado than legality. You are quite correct that it will take another year before the oil pie is officially divided. My friend, your details are welcome and wonderfully presented. To answer your question, I do not believe that Exon or any other US company is stealing oil. Stealing oil will never be the issue since we paid good blood and well over 1 trillion military dollars for this oil. I certainly hope we get our money's worth. Oil companies are certainly getting their profit despite the fall of our petro dollar. I am confident that the American and UK oil companies will get what we paid for. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Teribus Date: 01 Jul 08 - 11:38 AM "With no Iraq oil laws in place we are dividing the spoils virtually unilaterally." - Crap, according to the AP story the Companies involved do not even get a percentage of the the production they are paid a fee. The AP Story coverage by and large is also reflected by the BBC's reporting of it which also mentions companies from 35 countries "bidding" for the work. What Saddam Hussein was responsible for was for over production combined with a chronic lack of maintenance and total disregard for the health of the reservoirs from which he was extracting the oil. But there again he needed the money badly to pay for his wars, the oil was sold at ridiculous discount to the Russians, the French and the Chinese (Who was it that was blocking or threatening to block UN SC Resolutions again - Oh Yes Russia, France and China - How odd). Now then Donuel and all the "America only did it to steal Iraq's Oil Brigade", western oil companies are extremely good at marginal field development and what they call "down-hole-maintenance", there have been a number of offshore fields in the North Sea that having been abandoned by their original operators have been re-opened by Companies who have developed the technology to coax more of the oil from supposedly depleted reservoirs. That is why Iraq needs western expertise, the Russians know this well enough, in the period after the collapse of the Soviet Empire their oil and gas industry needed exactly the same intervention. Now tell us all again Donuel, exactly how does one go about stealing another nations oil reserves? Buckets during hours of darkness? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Donuel Date: 01 Jul 08 - 10:52 AM With no Iraq oil laws in place we are dividing the spoils virtually unilaterally. Some will say we already paid for it in blood. Right now on the Diane Reems show the oil inudustry representative is using Saddam Hussein's oil policy as a justification for what we are now doing. If he did it , its ok for us. OK afterall we are doing a lot in Iraq that Saddam did. Thats why we got rid of him isn't it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: artbrooks Date: 01 Jul 08 - 09:57 AM Bid or no bid? The AP has a different perspective on it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: pdq Date: 01 Jul 08 - 09:46 AM I am sure Donuel would prefer to see the contract awarded to the Southern Poverty Law Center. I wonder what their oil refining capacity is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: SINSULL Date: 01 Jul 08 - 09:17 AM http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/30/world/middleeast/30contract.html?em&ex=1214971200&en=c43a0a03b072df75&ei=5087%0A |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 01 Jul 08 - 09:04 AM Vter turn out in Australia is about 99.9999%... but we still have a puppet Govt - string pulled previously by Britian, then and now by USA, but increasingly by China & India... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Teribus Date: 01 Jul 08 - 08:43 AM Source please? Liked this though: "Now finally that we have a semi legitimate puppet goverment" Forgive me for pointing out the obvious Donuel: Voter turn-out in Iraq to elect their government under threat of death and violent retribution was 72%. Voter turn-out in the United States of America in the, "supposedly", most closely contested Presidential election in history was 56%. Greatest threat to those being the possibility of forgetting where they'd parked the remote for their TV, mind you that was close enough to keep damn near half of them at home. Voter turn-out at the last UK election was around 35%, in a country supposedly inflamed with outrage over the "illegal" wars we are fighting. Greatest threat to those elligible to vote was that they might miss 30 minutes of "Eastenders" or some daft reality TV show, that threat being severe enough to cow just under two-third of UK's voters into not voting. Now you tell me which population put in the effort and showed the greater interest - If I were you Donuel, I'd shut the fuck up about anybody else having puppet governments semi-legitimate or otherwise |
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Subject: BS: The new Mother of all No Bid Contracts From: Donuel Date: 30 Jun 08 - 01:55 PM Reagan and Bush #1 set the stage decades ago. Cheney has dreamed of this for 2 decades and Bush has tried for 6 years to parcel up Iraq's oil for US and UK oil companies. Now finally that we have a semi legitimate puppet goverment, Exon, Mobil, BP and Shell are being treated to a no bid contract to have the rights to Iraq oil. SWEEEET heart deals all around. Back in 2000 Rupert Murdoch said that if we waged a Gulf War correctly we could have $20 a barrel oil indefinetly. Today a barrel of sweet oil goes for 143 puny US dollars. SWEEET for oil companies. Maybe even more profit than $20 a barrel would bring. I want a no bid contract ;>o |
