BS: New Yorker Obama article by Ryan Lizza

Subject: RE: BS: New Yorker Obama article by Ryan Lizza
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Jul 08 - 11:17 AM

"He campaigns on reforming a broken political process, yet he has always played politics by the rules as they exist, not as he would like them to exist."

I can't think of a higher compliment for anyone in politics.

Subject: RE: BS: New Yorker Obama article by Ryan Lizza
From: Genie
Date: 19 Jul 08 - 08:02 PM

Don't worry, Jts. As Will Rogers astutely observed, "I'm not a member of any organized political party. I'm a Democrat."

The Democrats in Congress can't even seem to fall in line when they really should, such as to block Federal Court appointments for the likes of Alito and Roberts.   They'll hardly be easier to corral on less crucial or far-reaching issues.

Subject: RE: BS: New Yorker Obama article by Ryan Lizza
From: GUEST,Jts
Date: 19 Jul 08 - 06:18 PM

I don't want the Democratic Congress to be Obama's lap dog the way the 2000-2006 Congress was Bush's.

I want them to think before they votes.

I think that Obama is the most skilled politician I have ever seen. I think he will get support for his agenda by appealing directly to the people.

He will have no significant opposition from Congress for withdrawl from Iraq. But Lindsey Graham's head will probably burst.

Lobbying from the monied special interests will be his problem for universal health care. I think he has the skill to take them on if they don't buy him off.

He'll take all the easy steps toward energy independence. He'll get full support for that. But most of the changes required will have to come from Congress.

Its going to take him a lot of work to undo the damage Bush appointments have done in virtually every cabinet department from Agriculture to Transportation. With the possible exception of defense, they are all underfunded, lacking sufficient manpower and dysfunctional to some degree.

Subject: RE: BS: New Yorker Obama article by Ryan Lizza
From: Genie
Date: 19 Jul 08 - 04:00 PM

The Democrats stand a good chance of getting a pretty much filibuster-proof majority in the Senate or at least a strong enough majority that it would take all the Republicans (including Joe Lieberman) to block the Dems' proposed bills from coming to a vote.   If that happens, "working across the aisles" to the extent of compromising core principles may not be needed.

Plus, Obama has a record of working with Republicans successfully in both the Illinois legislature and the US Senate.   That's part of why so many idealistic progressives are becoming disenchanted with him to varying degrees. He's seen as more of a centrist and too much a corporatist for the more liberal Democrats to be wildly excited about his candidacy.
But if he were a Dennis Kucinich type Democrat, the corporatist "mainstream media" would destroy his chances of winning against the "experienced" avuncular "war hero and maverick" McCain.   

As it is, little is being accomplished in Congress now, because the Democrats hold only a rather small majority in the House (with quite a few Dems being "blue dog" Democrats and the party as a whole being like cats who resist being "herded") and because the Republicans in the Senate in this past year have filibustered more bills than any Senate since the inception of this company. The network and cable news channels don't report that, though; they usually present it as "such and such bill failed to pass" or "the Democrats could not garner enough votes to pass such and such bill," even when in reality the bill had enough BI-partisan support to easily pass if it had been brought to the floor for a vote. Very little will ever be accomplished in the US Senate if the minority political party insists on filibustering every bill the party bigwigs don't support.

And, of course, George W Bush has been vetoing even a lot of bills that have bipartisan support. His claim to be one who "works across the aisle" has not been borne out any time since he became President. I fully expect Obama to be more so inclined -- even in cases where I'll probably wish he were not.

Subject: RE: BS: New Yorker Obama article by Ryan Lizza
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jul 08 - 03:24 PM

There is little doubt that the next Congress will be strongly divided. The main problem for the next president will be bringing the members together on issues, otherwise little will be accomplished. Obama may be too much an outsider.

Subject: RE: BS: New Yorker Obama article by Ryan Lizza
From: Genie
Date: 19 Jul 08 - 02:37 PM

Nothing in the article surprises me or is at odds with most of what I've already learned about Barack Obama's background, nor does it distress me much.

Bobby Kennedy, whose assassination I believe robbed the US of a potentially great President, was called "ruthless" - and for good reason.   Bill Clinton, who for all his faults was a helluva lot better President than many others (including the highly overrated and under-criticized Ronald Reagan and, especially, the present occupant of the White House), was a calculating politician aiming at the Presidency ever since he was a young kid meeting JFK.   (The pity is that Clinton wasn't enough of a strategizer to prevent Gingrich's 1994 "Contract With America" backlash and wasn't calculating enough either to keep his fly zipped while interns were in the Oval Office or at least to destroy all evidence that he hadn't. Had Clinton been just that much more calculating as a politician, Dubya would not have had a chance to become President in 2000.)

I think these two paragraphs make the main points:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/21/080721fa_fact_lizza?currentPage=15

"Like many politicians, Obama is paradoxical. He is by nature an incrementalist, yet he has laid out an ambitious first-term agenda (energy independence, universal health care, withdrawal from Iraq). He campaigns on reforming a broken political process, yet he has always played politics by the rules as they exist, not as he would like them to exist. He runs as an outsider, but he has succeeded by mastering the inside game. He is ideologically a man of the left, but at times he has been genuinely deferential to core philosophical insights of the right."

...

"Another transition from primary to general election is now under way for Obama, and it is causing him a similar set of problems, all of which stem from a realization among his supporters that superheroes don't become President; politicians do. Judging by the reaction to Obama's most recent decisions—his willingness to support legislation to modify the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, his rightward shift on interpreting the Second Amendment, his decision to "refine" his Iraq policies—some voters will be crushed by this realization and others will be relieved. ... "

Subject: RE: BS: New Yorker Obama article by Ryan Lizza
From: GUEST,jts
Date: 19 Jul 08 - 01:08 PM

You are welcome.

Subject: RE: BS: New Yorker Obama article by Ryan Lizza
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jul 08 - 01:04 PM

Interesting article. Thanks for the link.

Subject: BS: New Yorker Obama article by Ryan Lizza
From: GUEST,Jts
Date: 19 Jul 08 - 11:58 AM

If half of this is to be believed I have underestimated Obama's political skills.

The article.