BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: kendall
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 07:10 AM

All politicians promise to cut waste and fraud. Sounds good, but anyone who has worked for the government knows that it will not happen. This is why:

Each department gets a certain amount of money to operate on for the fiscal year. If they don't spend every cent, their funds are cut the following year. So, they make sure that there is no money in the fund at the end of the year. I've seen this in both the state and federal agencies for whom I worked for 17 years. It is disgusting to see perfectly good equipment get the deep six just to get rid of it, and if anyone is dumb enough to protest, he/she is advanced to the top of the "Not a team player" list.

There is an unofficial motto in government, "Expand or expire"

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 05:39 PM

There are three ways for a government to fund programs: Tax, Borrow or Print. In any case, the cash ultimately comes from the taxpayer (or his kids and grandkids).

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 05:20 PM

I just want to know where ANY of the 'promised' money is going to COME FROM? They want to 'cut taxes', fund billions of dollars of 'Stuff' and we already have a 10 TRILLION dollar deficit!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 02:50 PM

When you get right down to it, NO universal health care plan will work--unless something is done about reducing the costs of medical care, hospitals, drugs, medical equipment and supplies and administrative costs. A recent example:
I'm on Medicare. My doctor sent me to get a routu=ine stress test and a routine blood test (general workup). The bill--which was paid by Medicare and my Medigap insurance plan--- was a bit over $11,000. WIth charges like that, NO payment system can work over a stretch of time. Preventative medicine only makes things worse-if it works, it only permits you to live longer and accrue more medical bills.

A government-sponsored Medical School scholarship program , with a compulsory period of public service work for graduates, would be a good first step, especially when we seem to have a shortage of doctors in many areas. Another would be to permit the government to bargain with drug companies for the best price. A big step forward would be to ban advertising of drugs to the public. CLearly a central computerized database of medical records could be an immense help, both in reducing administrative costs and (much more importantly) in determining effectiveness of different treatments.

There a lots of ways to make things better. BUT choosing which way the consumer is going to pay for today's overinflated costs isn't any of them.

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 07:01 AM

"recipients".   Sorry I misspelled that. My sense of spelling is usually pretty good, and I never have to use a spellcheck. It's my typing which is wretched. So I have to proofread pretty carefully--but still may miss something.

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 09:45 PM

"than several generations"

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Oct 08 - 09:31 PM

8 Oct 2008 11:35 AM--"Obama would also rely..."

Sounds like the poster is alleging there will be no difference in the approaches of Obama and McCain on Medicare/Medicaid.

It appears you are wrong on two counts:

1) McCain promises to not only maintain the Bush tax cuts but extend and increase them. He also plans to extend more tax cuts to needy groups--like Exxon.

This will be quite expensive. So when he looks at Medicare/Medicaid and is not able to find $1.3 trillion in "savings" from "fraud and abuse"--surprise, surprise---he will indeed cut deeply in Medicare/Medicaid. Especially since

2) McCain worships balanced budgets--except of course for foreign military adventures. Obama has far more compassion--and, coming from a much poorer background than a several generations of admirals, is far more likely to put the welfare of Medicare/Medicaid recepients above the sacred status of a balanced budget.   And Obama will not be continuing the tradition of corporate welfare to Exxon, etc.--nor coddling taxpayers who make over $250,000/ yr.

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 09:46 PM

The $5000 figure is for a family; single folks would get $2500. And still have employer-provided health care taxed.

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 07:54 PM

Face it, folks, Medicare is gonna have to have a second peek... Yeah, I know that lottta folks are happy with the perscription porgram but it is deeply flawed... Hey, ain't like Obama can say that now if he wants to get elected but Obama ain't no dummy and I'd bet that should he be elected that this program will be revisited...

Remember the night they passed it??? The Repubs had to threaten its own members to vote for it... There is a reason for this and that reason is that this entire program was put together by the drug companies... Every word of the legislation was written by lobbiests for the pharmicudical industry...

That won't do...

It is so filled with fat for them that it will have to be rewritten... I'm sorry to those of you who like it but we ain't talkin' about takin' nuthin' from ya'lls... Just takin' soemthin' from the drug industry... They are no better than the Fat Cats on Wall Street with theri hands out... That won't do...

Screwed up program... Billions going to Fat Cats...

That won't do...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 07:41 PM

How much interest are we paying on that debt?

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: artbrooks
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 06:33 PM

Having worked for the Federal government for over 30 years (military and civilian service), it has been my observation and experience that the additional spending is always underestimated, and the savings from cuts and elimination of "waste, fraud and abuse" are always overestimated. And, yes, this applies to both party's plans.

BTW, someone said it but I'll say it again - the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are not part of the military budget. They are being paid for by emergency resolutions (that both candidates regularly vote for), and these expenditures do not have any offsetting revenues...in other words, we (the US) are borrowing the money, from the Chinese and Saudis, among others (including Little Johnny's $50 savings bond).

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: Barry Finn
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 05:50 PM

"Some"??? so that doesn't mean any cuts to M&M by Obama does it? Sounds far better than the MaCain costs/cuts that will victimize those that are already on M&M or on any other health plan or who will need M&M in the future.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 04:46 PM

I agree with the above post about our military spending. The reason things are this way is because people in this country have been pretty well brainwashed about a lot of things, and it's extremely easy for the big money people to manipulate the electorate. That may be changing now, because of the internet.

I disagree with a lot of Obama's positions on things, but I am willing to give him a chance to show me that he will do what is right. I intend to hold his feet to the fire continually if he gets elected, and I hope that everyone who votes for him will do the same.. I know that McCain won't do what is right.

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 11:35 AM

McCain: "Mr. Holtz-Eakin said the plan is accurately described as budget neutral because it assumes enough savings in Medicare and Medicaid spending to make up the difference. He said the savings would come from eliminating Medicare fraud and by reforming payment policies to lower the overall cost of care. " - So no actual cuts

"Sen. Obama also would rely on some Medicare savings to pay for his health-care plan, "

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: Barry Finn
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 11:00 AM

Where did Obama say he's cutting Medicare/Medicade to help fund his health plan?
MaCain's $5000 tax health rebate is peanuts. As it stands M&M can't stand any cuts. I pay extra for my part D plan of Medicare, it's their top level/shelf perscription plan. In August they stopped paying because I reached my $2500 yearly limit, luckly I have a secondary plan to fall back on, many others don't. I have to spend, out of my pocket another 4500 before they'll start paying for my perscriptions again. MaCain's $5000, I'll eat up by March & start dying by June. No Thanks.
With MaCain's plan Americans on M&M will need to buy 2 health plans if they're gonna get by, M&M just won't cover enough.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 10:02 AM

Thanks for the info Carol.

I certainly know where Mccain stands in regards to the military / healthcare budgets. But with Obama I feel he could do better.

I know, I know he's the best going in the race but I still feel hazy onto where he is going to take it all in regards to the military objective vs. healthcare. The whole healthcare issue could easily be solved just by cutting back drastically on the military machine. Being a Canadian I find it hard to fathom on how there could be debates about the whole lack of adequate care in a rich ocuntry when the money that is spent on the military machine is beyond any reaonable comprehension.

BTW ... I was listening to a CBC Radio 2 program last week when they did mention the $630 $Billion$ bill being passed in Congress (while they arguing over the $700 $billion to save the bankers) ... it mentioned that this miltary budget was not only $money$ to support the war, but also for the whole infrastructure of the military ... right or wrong, that is a lotta $money$ and I feel it is a shame when so many in the country do not have adequate healthcare, adequate education. The right to healhcare should not even be in question.

biLL

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 09:39 AM

OK, here it is:

"Mr. Holtz-Eakin said the campaign never intended to apply the payroll tax to health benefits. That means that most people would see a net tax cut, contrary to Sen. Obama's assertions. Only those with very rich benefits packages are likely to see a net increase in taxes. But it also means that Sen. McCain must fill a huge budget hole -- which the campaign says will come from cuts to Medicare and Medicaid.

The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, estimates that the McCain plan would cost the government $1.3 trillion over 10 years. The plan would allow as many as five million more people to have insurance, it estimates.

Mr. Holtz-Eakin said the plan is accurately described as budget neutral because it assumes enough savings in Medicare and Medicaid spending to make up the difference. He said the savings would come from eliminating Medicare fraud and by reforming payment policies to lower the overall cost of care. He said the new tax credits will help some low-income people avoid joining Medicaid. The campaign also proposes increasing Medicare premiums for wealthier seniors.

Sen. Obama also would rely on some Medicare savings to pay for his health-care plan, which would offer subsidies to help consumers pay for premiums. The Tax Policy Center estimates that his plan would cost $1.6 trillion over 10 years and cover 34 million more people."




Note that Obama's cost is $1.6 trillion ( vice McCain's $1.3 trillion) but covers more additional people ( +34 million, vice McCain's +5 million)



So, it also follows that

"WSJ says Obama, to pay for his planned medical coverage, now plans to cut Medicare and Medicaid by $1.6 trillion over the next 10 years.

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 09:36 AM

"WSJ says McCain, to pay for his planned $5,000 tax credit for medical coverage, now plans to cut Medicare and Medicaid by $1.3 trillion over the next 10 years." according to RonDavies

"."..."The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, estimates that the McCain plan would cost the government $1.3 trillion over 10 years. The plan would allow as many as five million more people to have insurance, it estimates."" according to artbrooks



So, which one is it? Or are we saying that

I heard that McCain is doing A and A is bad, so I will vote for Obama, when McCain is not doing A at all???

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 09:27 AM

The spending on the "defense" budget and the spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are different budgets (according to what I've read). Obama wants the defense budget to remain large (I disagree with him on this), but he wants to end the war in Iraq, which as has been said above is costing US taxpayers 12 billion dollars a week.

Even if we keep the large "defense" budget, ending our occupation of Iraq would free up $12 billion a week, which as has already been pointed out, would pay for a hell of a lot of health care.

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 09:25 AM

Tonight he said, if elected, he would immediately tell the sec. of the treasury to spend 300 billion to buy up all the bad mortgages out there and help renegotiate payment of them with the folks who lost their homes. THIS on top of the 700 billion last week which was to, you guessed it, buy up the bad mortgages!

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the nationalization of businesses one of the "creeping socialism" bugaboos the Repubs & BuShites are always prating on about?

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 09:03 AM

What's Obama's proposed spending budget in regards to the military machine?

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 08:51 AM

As someone without any access to any health care whatever, I think about it a lot. That's one of the big reasons I'm probably going to vote for Obama and one of the biggest reasons the idea of a McCain/Palin administration scares the crap out of me.

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 08:44 AM

$12 $billion$ a week goes to the war / military.

How many kids in the U.S. could get medicare (per year) with $12 $BILLION$ ..... hell, how many people would get adequate healthcare with that $amount$ of money?

Get your thoughts away from McCain, Palin, Obama, Wall Street and just think about it.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: Peace
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 01:17 AM

One more thing: When you owe the bank $10,000 they own you. When you owe them $700,000,000 YOU own them!

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: Peace
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 01:15 AM

Also, let the damned banks and mortgage companies have the houses and condos. WTF are they gonna DO with them.

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: Peace
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 01:14 AM

What's 400 billion here and there . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 12:26 AM

Tonight he said, if elected, he would immediately tell the sec. of the treasury to spend 300 billion to buy up all the bad mortgages out there and help renegotiate payment of them with the folks who lost their homes. THIS on top of the 700 billion last week which was to, you guessed it, buy up the bad mortgages!

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 12:04 AM

There goes Florida. And California.

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 11:26 PM

Well, they are going to cut from somewhere....including our freedom and liberty.....but at least we'll get medical care though it.....NOT!

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 08:41 PM

Well, I hope that McCain puts this plan out before the American people tonight in the debates...

It will cost him the election... He will never, ever be able to explain his way out of it...

But on a more sobering side, yes, both programs need a tune up... The Medicare perscription plan, while popular with retirees, was set up to keep the pharmacudical companies happy... That needs a serious revisiting...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: Alice
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 08:00 PM

Yesterday I heard the Medicare/Medicaid news after Palin did a speech in Florida. Rachel Maddow covered the issue of how McCain will gut Medicare/Medicaid, and gee, those people at the Florida rally probably had not heard that part of the plan.

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:46 PM

"borrowing from Peter to pay Paul"

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: artbrooks
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:30 PM

WSJ article here. The McCain campaign says "the savings would come from eliminating Medicare fraud and by reforming payment policies to lower the overall cost of care. He said the new tax credits will help some low-income people avoid joining Medicaid. The campaign also proposes increasing Medicare premiums for wealthier seniors."..."The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, estimates that the McCain plan would cost the government $1.3 trillion over 10 years. The plan would allow as many as five million more people to have insurance, it estimates."

Smoke and mirrors.

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: gnu
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:20 PM

Shhhhh... you'll fog up the smoke and mirrors!

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:18 PM

If you end the war in the middle east (immedately) and this means Iraq and the Afghani .... cut back drastically on the exhorbant expenditures to the military, then you would have enough to provide adequate medicare for all and no need to raise taxes.

Anyone one of the 2 major candidates proposing this ??

Last week when Congress was deciding to sign the $700 billion wall street bailout, they did sign a $630 billion fundng bill for the Pentagon.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: gnu
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:15 PM

Gobsmacked silence! Can this actually be true?

I mean... don't matter squat to me as a Cancuk, except that if our BIG neighbour treats it's own this way, and Harper gets a majority, might we have to bear arms soon?

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: Peace
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:07 PM

Where pray tell are the people who have been telling us how great medical care is in the USA?

































And a hush fell over the crowd . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 06:51 PM

I think it is insane to do that and also insane to tax people's medical benefits they already have. And then talk about tax cuts. Leave as much stable as possible. If people have good medical beneifts, hooray..leave them for now and transition to a universal system without the trauma of a total collapse of the health care system, which leaning too far one way or the other could do. And don't make your working voters mad by taxing their medical benefits. I will willingly pay higher taxes on my salary, but leave my benefits alone. mg

Subject: RE: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 06:47 PM

Which is why they're working so hard to suppress the elderly voters in Florida (or at least to trick them into re-registering as Republicans).

Subject: BS: $1.3 Trillion Cut In Medicare/Medicaid
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 06:43 PM

Source: WSJ

I don't have the direct quote--no time now-- but I'll get it. McCain's campaign may well have just imploded.

WSJ says McCain, to pay for his planned $5,000 tax credit for medical coverage, now plans to cut Medicare and Medicaid by $1.3 trillion over the next 10 years.

He only had one group solidly voting for him--people over 65. With this, he very likely has shattered this last bloc--especially since Medicare has assumed an even greater importance for people who've been hit by the market downturn--and see the recession already here.

I've already read that older Florida voters are up in arms about McCain's plan.

With this--if there is no foreign policy crisis-- Obama could pound McCain into the ground by Election Day.