BS: Bush nuking the environment as he leaves

Subject: RE: BS: Bush nuking the environment as he leaves
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 04:43 PM

Any and all executive orders, so I understand, can be cancelled by Obama as soon as he is inaugurated. That would be a good way for him to hit the ground running.

In fact he doesn't have to wait until January 20th to effectively rub them out - every time such an order is made he could issue a press releasing confirming that it will be cancelled on the morning of January 20th.

Pardons are another matter. Perhaps in some cases there might be an option of taking advantage of the fact that presidential pardons for war crimes don't carry any weight outside the United States. I'm sure there are plenty of countries which would be happy to hold trials, especially if given a nod and a wink by the President. If the people facing the charges refused to attend, that needn't stop such trials going ahead in absentia.

Though, I wonder - would a court setup in Guantanamo be bound by such pardons, since that isn't actually in the States?

Subject: RE: BS: Bush nuking the environment as he leaves
From: Peter T.
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 04:29 PM

It is of course a disaster that one President will have to use Executive orders to countermand the Executive orders of the previous President. The people who are supposed to be making the laws are Congress in the United States.   This is all part of the executive branch taking over -- which inevitably happens in continuous wartime conditions, and which was specifically warned against over and over again in the Federalist Papers.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush nuking the environment as he leaves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 02:08 PM

Still beats him nuking Iran!

Subject: RE: BS: Bush nuking the environment as he leaves
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 10:11 PM

In theory the Supremes are supposed to be apolitical. Very unfortunately, that changed in the late 20th Century. Those who scream the most about "activist courts" seem to do so only when the courts don't rule in their favor.

There is A LOT of trash to clean up in DC, starting with the Reagan administration.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush nuking the environment as he leaves
From: Barry Finn
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 09:55 PM

John, as long as we know that Obama & his administration is on the ball & repairing the damage that's been done, as long as we see light at the end of the tunnel we can bare the burden of the wait. It took Bush, his Cabnats, his Congrits, his Seatnits & his Cute Court a long time to put this nation where it is today, it'll take a long time & an awful lot of work "to put it back together again" but as long as Obama has us heading in that direction I think that hopeful Americans will struggle their best in the hopes of a better & brighter future.

The Supreme Court, as you said well only at best be a near balance butthey'll also have in mind that they are the last baston on the Bush suriviors & will mind their manners. Our day will come, even in the Superme Court.

I'm hoping that Obama eventually goes after Buch, Cheney, Rove & others. This is another issue that will have to wait & it'll take time, even sit on the back burner for awhile, while more important issues are addressed but I do hope their day will come too. It'll send a message that needs sending, never again can a president get away with doing to the American people what this administration did to us.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Bush nuking the environment as he leaves
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 03:36 AM

The commentary at the link probably makes it look simpler than it really is. Few of the "executive orders" can be revoked just with a "stroke of the pen" since massive federal agencies (stocked with loyal Bush political appointees?) must be herded into line to effectively counter many of them.

It's encouraging that the intent to reverse some of them is up front; but the actual changes may take much longer than is good for us. Since many (all?) of the "final hour" orders are for the benefit of special interests, it may be assumed that those benefiting from them will act quickly to take advantage of the Bush versions, and then there will be "fiscal corrections" and "buyoffs" to reverse "projects" that may be set in motion before the orders can be revoked.

The Bush effort to "entrench" policies in the last few days of his administration is no different than what most, if not all, presidents have done. The difference is that nearly all of the Bush "last gasps" implement political payoffs to the anti-environment interests who've supported him. While his administration was in full swing, most such "payoffs" were done under the table and behind the scenes, apparently directed by Cheney^* (the invisible man).

^* A Federal District Court order that Cheney's "official papers" must not be destroyed was answered by the White House with a "legal opinion" that Dick Cheney is "not a member of the Administration" so the "public documents" law doesn't apply. Another court test needed - after the papers are shredded?

Bush was not particularly successful with "stacking" the Supreme Court, but the new administration has little chance of swinging the balance. The only justices likely to retire during the next couple of administrations are the more liberal ones, so the only likely new appointments to be made can only, at best, maintain the present balance.

Federal Courts have, however, been largely "stuffed" with Bush appointees, and decisions by the "new Federal Courts" (below District Court level) have been about twice as likely to favor "big busines/corporate interests" over citizen interests as they had been prior to this administration. This will be very difficult to reverse in any short term.

The Patriot Act, and all of the invasive and immoral (IMO) activities that it "approved" was, unfortunately, implemented (after the fact) in Acts of Congress, so a new president can't change much of it without support and action from Congress. Courts have begun to question some of what's been done, since even a lackey judge has to pay some tribute to the law; but abolishing the "secret court," (at least the one we know about) and countering the fear-mongering that has crippled our social order will not come overnight.

Congress had already enacted a law requiring the Administration to forward to Congress, unredacted, any scientific or technical report on research sponsered with Federal funds; but Bush produced a "legal opinion" that the "White House" was exempt from the law. A counter-opinion would force a court test to determine which is correct. Trials take a long time.

And then there's the economy ... . Nowhere else in the world do CEOs of corporations make more than 20 to 35 times the "average employee income" in their company. In the US, the average is slightly more than 200 times "average employee" level. (And their tax rates are effectively lower than what's paid by the clerks in the office.) Even if the "rules" could be changed fairly quickly, how long would it take the IRS, FTC, SEC, and an alphabet soup of other government agencies to understand the changes so they could be put into use?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Bush nuking the environment as he leaves
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 12:15 AM

Me, too, Barry. Thanks, John.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush nuking the environment as he leaves
From: Barry Finn
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 12:01 AM

Thanks for the link John, I'll sleep better knowing that many of Bush's fuck-ups can be reversed quickly & that Obama & company are already on the job. One of the issues I couldn't find any info on was the Patriot Act & Habeas Corpus but then those are just 2 of the many major messes Obama is forced to deal with.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Bush nuking the environment as he leaves
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 10:18 PM

Bush has made it a practice to issue executive orders with obvious "political content" and to ignore the advice of representatives of the "rest of the world."

Despite a Supreme Court ruling that the "line item veto" - accepting parts of legislation but deleting individual "things the Prez objects to" - Bush has issued several hundred effective "line items" in the form of "signing opinions," that in essence say that "Congress can make a law, but I don't have to enforce it." (Although that's not what his oath of office says.)

For the other side of the coin:

Obama positioned to reverse Bush actions

Some of the suggested "reversals" of executive actions likely will be quite controversial, and Obama advisors stress that few final decisions have been made; but there's a lot of dirty dealing to be cleaned up and it's encouraging to know that (some of) the possibilities are being examined.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Bush nuking the enviorment as he leaves
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 09:41 AM

Keep in mind that any executive order, unlike legislation, can be canceled by the next executive.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush nuking the enviorment as he leaves
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 03:08 AM

Also see BS: What George might do... (thread)

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Bush nuking the enviorment as he leaves
From: Barry Finn
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 02:37 AM

You're right Peter, still very scary

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Bush nuking the enviorment as he leaves
From: Peter T.
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 02:30 AM

Keep in mind that this is not legislation, mostly executive orders. It bypasses the legislature, which is the problem with executive power, and has been for some time.....

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: BS: Bush nuking the enviorment as he leaves
From: Barry Finn
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 01:34 AM

Time's article on Bush's killer exit from office

It seems as if, like other Presidents Bush will try to push through some last minute legistration. Usually it's done with the better interests of the nation in mind. NOT THIS TIME.
Bush is trying to weaken the enviormental laws & restrictions so that industry can profit at the cost of the enviorment & the public. I don't know how reliable Time's story is but it's very scary even if it's remotly or partially possible.


Barry