BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 May 09 - 05:12 PM

I must admit, I don't seem to have the anger others seem to have over the expenses business and while some may be way OTT, I'm not convinced it's all that bad. I think genuine mistakes can be made and, to be honest, I wouldn't have a clue as to what might be reasonable - I certainly would not expect my MP to spend his time in London in a bare shabby bedsit but I'm not sure where you would draw the line the other end.

Overall, the business has amused me. This does come down to what ETV has commented on above. To me, there is almost a sense of justice in seeing those who would watch our every move and keep all sorts of data on us being put through this.

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 26 May 09 - 01:07 PM

It has been said that the public anger over this scandal has been or is bordering on hysteria, especially by church leaders this last weekend. "People who are "hysterical" often lose self-control due to the overwhelming fear."   I don't think we, the population fit the description. I think the public have every right to be angry and to demand full and honest information. We live in a society where much is kept under the guise of "secret". Robomatic, in Britain there really is a "big brother" watching us, keeping tabs on our vehicles and their journies, our phone calls,our mobile phone calls, our internet sites visited and our e-mails and if people go on demonstrations etc. If such information is kept on us for no real reason except the claim it reduces crime(with no evidence whatsoever to substatiate this), then why is it not pertinent that those who live in power over us are should be honest and transparent in order to reduce their crime?

As for Blair, he might seem an OK guy in America, but he created new labour when John Smith died. New labour very soon ditched their roots and stabbed their grass roots supporters in the back. Blair and Cherie saw themselves as presidential. He is also a proven liar. If there is no truth and respect from our elected leaders, how can they expect respect from us?

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 25 May 09 - 10:19 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: robomatic
Date: 23 May 09 - 05:23 PM

As I'm writting this I'm listening to a travel show go into detail about British castles in Wales used as a version of 'green zones' to control territory because 'shock and awe' didn't work.

The more things change...

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 May 09 - 03:12 PM

Well, robo, know you know what history does. It's a bit like "What is folk?" really...

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: michaelr
Date: 23 May 09 - 02:24 PM

"We American progressives still tend to look on Tony Blair with admiration." Speak for yourself, please, Joe! This progressive certainly does not.

"so I hope Obama doesn't end up disappointing us like Blair". He already is, where I'm concerned, not that I was one of the lefties that made Obama into the new Messiah.

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: robomatic
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:56 AM

Y'know, the way the Brits talk makes it more obvious that there really WAS an Elizabeth, there really WAS a Charles I, there really WAS a Cromwell. . .






there really COULD BE a Big Brother!

In a way I'm full of horror and admiration at the same time.

Way to go, our political progenitor. Make sure you get it right!

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:32 AM

Joe -My mindset is - I'm so disillusioned with the Greens in Ireland because they coalesced with Fianna Fail which has turned out to be so up to their necks in with developers/builders/bankers which has brought this once proud country to its knees - if they pulled out, I could maybe forgive them, but they don't want to because they think they will lose all power & maybe not get another chance like it again!

I feel totally disenfranchised!

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 May 09 - 08:00 AM

Thatcher? Straightforwardly evil - and she lied, lied, and lied again about the Belgrano.

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: Acorn4
Date: 23 May 09 - 07:46 AM

ruer Shade of Blue

When you were young and in your prime,
Your belly full of rage and fire,
You stood out with Trotsky on the barricades,
That Little Red Book there to inspire you,
And that poster of Che Guevara,
it hung on your wall for years,
You thought you were going to change the world
and watch it all come crashing down around their ears,

But the years have flown past so quickly,
and it's strange but oh, so true,
That flag once red with the workers' blood
now flies a truer shade of blue.

You were the young icon of the left,
you argued deep, deep into the night,
No clouds to block your vision,
the truth was there in black and white,
And you wore Fidel Castro's cap,
it sat squarely on your head,
Now you talk in hushed voices
along the corridors of power,
One day soon you'll be a minister it's said..

And now Maggie Thatcher's knickers,
they seem the perfect fit for you,
As they hang out on your washing line,
in a truer shade of blue.

You've gotten wealth, you've gotten image,
you've protected and survived alright,
And now you worry about those demons,
and things that might go bump in the night,
You want a good school for your children,
you want investments that will grow,
As you drifted into the middle of the road
and onto the other side,
Safe within that comfort zone..

And as you find yourself saying
the things you said you'd never say,
just like your parents used to do,
And the political litmus paper
has turned a truer shade of blue.

Your feet are firmly on the ladder,
you're a winner in the game,
You joined the congregation,
you even sing in the choir,
that revolution never came anyway,
But sometimes through the opium
you catch a glimpse in the mirror,
reflecting those far off long gone days,
You try telling yourself
it was a natural progression,
just a passing phase,

And as you contemplate power dressing
for that important interview,
Glad that you've been born again
in a truer shade of blue.

(To "Whiter Shade of Pale")

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 May 09 - 05:36 AM

He certainly was no Margaret Thatcher

True. I might have disliked what she stood for but I usually felt I could trust Maggie to do what she said. Blair exchanged that sort of straightforwardness for "spin" - Tony Bliar.

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 May 09 - 09:57 PM

Well, to my mind, Blair moved to what I would call a moderate position. He certainly was no Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Reagan. I think his biggest mistake was to support Bush's little war in Iraq - but so did the U.S. Congress, at the beginning.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 May 09 - 09:29 PM

Joe, we used to have (old) Labour to the left and Conservatives to the right. Bliar and crew moved (new) Labour to the Conservatives position. Effectively, he took away a voting option I think needed to maintain a balance.

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 May 09 - 09:18 PM

I didn't think you'd like my comment about Blair, Richard. I still think highly of him, and still wonder what went wrong. I guess I don't believe anyone is as profoundly awful as some people describe.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 May 09 - 06:28 PM

Blair? You must be joking!

Brown on the other hand has got the measure of the recession, as has Obama and we need both to beat this thing (and maybe control capitalism).

B. Liar just let capitalism run free and lied to start wars in the hope of the Falklands effect on his popularity - and did it all on the back of religious faith. God botherers have been the cause of more misery on this planet than anyone else. NEVER let them lead you with their "moral" compass.

The crusades

The languedoc regions

The spanish inquisition

And Irish schoolboys.

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 May 09 - 04:09 PM

I'm trying to catch on to the proper mindset, Jim, but it's hard. From here in California, it's easy to think of England as the entire UK.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: Jim McLean
Date: 22 May 09 - 03:58 PM

There are political parties in other parts of the Uk, i.e. outside England. Scotland at the moment is governed by the SNP and Plaid Cymru in Wales could do well so remember we are not just talking about England here.

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 May 09 - 03:24 PM

It's an interesting time. We American progressives still tend to look on Tony Blair with admiration. He talks the same talk as Barack Obama, so I hope Obama doesn't end up disappointing us like Blair disappointed progressives in the UK. Gordon Brown doesn't impress anybody, so there's good reason for people to be disillusioned with Labour in the UK. I don't know enough about government in Ireland to have an opinion.

Yeah, there is reason to fear that the fascists will gain power in the UK and other places - the extremists often gain power in hard times, because people have a right to be upset with the majority parties and their failure to fix the economy. I think that's what happened in Europe in the 1930's. The Social Democrats and the Christian Democrats failed to fix the economy, and the fascists filled the gap. The fascists had a lot of popularity in the U.S. and UK during the thirties, also - but not enough to take over. I don't think things are quite so bad now, but it's something to watch out for.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: Leadfingers
Date: 22 May 09 - 01:44 PM

What ever you decide , you need to vote ! Otherwise the BNP are going to get more proportional stuff !!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 May 09 - 01:42 PM

Hey Jim, would it help if we offered direct rule from Westminster again? (joke).

Subject: RE: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: Paul Burke
Date: 22 May 09 - 01:10 PM

If you let them. Irish politics has stunk since the 1920s, so nothing really new there. We had hope in the UK when the Labour Party was merely incompetent. The New Labour project changed all that. Even the Lib Dems are problematic- they are hoping for defections from the right (read New) wing of the Labour Party, the very people who brought us war drimes, greed, economic catastrophe and corruption. Some of the smaller parties are promising- the UK Greens are still OK (if the home of too many over- earnest would- be authoritarians), but there are various Socialist and single- issue (e.g. leftwing anti-EU) parties that might be worth a vote. Especially if you oppose the corrosive Lisbonn Treaty.

Subject: BS: UK/Ireland Public Anger
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 22 May 09 - 05:34 AM

I detect that there is so much public anger with the the misdemeanors of politicians at the moment & wonder how this is going to manifest itself - there seems to be a whiff of revolution in the air!

I have voted Green for a number of years but am so disillusioned with them here in Ireland I just don't know which way to turn & I suspect a lot of people feel the same way - what will apathy result in though? Will the fascists take over?