Rational vs irrational

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: GUEST,Guest from sanity
Date: 19 May 10 - 09:21 PM

Where am I??
Where in the hell is my computer???

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 May 10 - 09:15 PM

"Between the extremes of a Com. Spock and a Capt. Kirk is supposedly an ideal middle ground. But when you have thousands of extremists on each end, the middle ground becomes more shaky and volatile."

Sitting on the fence means that the irrational bastards on both sides throw rocks at the obvious target, and also you get hit while being in the way of the irrational bastards on the opposite far sides of the fence ...

People often confuse irrational with many other concepts, non-intuitive, etc, especially things and processes they have never thought about in any other way than the way they have always thought. "Faith" consists in clinging onto such beliefs, no matter what you else discover...

An 'irrational number' merely means that it cannot be expressed as a ratio - 1 = 1/1 5 = 5/1 pi = 22/7 (ah - I know! D/D :) but the square root of 2 is not a ratio... then there are 'real & unreal numbers'....

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Donuel
Date: 19 May 10 - 10:05 AM

When studying disciplines like economics it is important to realize that it is at its heart a behavioral science that must account for irrationality of the human mind, desires and expectations.

Like an irrational heroin crack addict alcoholic, Wall Street captains can not imagine living without doing the various behaviors that will kill their golden goose, themselves and others.

So far no one is rationally bold enough to do a meaningful intervention.

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Jan 10 - 09:21 PM

An interesting article on how and why we think and act as we do:

http://www.onelife.com/evolve/brain.html

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jan 10 - 08:33 PM

As a point of definitions, "reactive" and "intuitive" are not the same sort of thing at all.

Getting an intuition and acting on it in an unexpected way that turns out to have anticipated events ocrrectly is perfectly rational, just too fast to be articulated. You could call it instinctive or intuitive, but it is not destructive.

Believing one is being told to start wars because God is in your hairdryer talking to you is reactive.

Fast analysis--even fast as thought itself and too fast to be analyz3d logically is very different than reacting to past losses, pains, confusions and blind spots. One tends toward better futures, the other toward reciprocal destructiveness.


A

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 09 Jan 10 - 08:24 PM

Rational/irrational is not the end of the story. many of our capacities, such as intuition, and wisdom, are not necessarily rational, but nrither are they irrational, i.e. they do not offend against rationality, but are oin a different category, and may properly be called non-rational.
The notion that rationality is the only source of knowledge is itself irratioinal.

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Jan 10 - 04:49 PM

Decisions can be made instantly without thinking about them in advance.
Some of these are quite rational like stopping before you come to the edge of a cliff.

Yet, irrational decisions can turn out to be rational. It's often called "science".

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 06:13 PM

interesting links.

Between the extremes of a Com. Spock and a Capt. Kirk is supposedly an ideal middle ground. But when you have thousands of extremists on each end, the middle ground becomes more shakey and volitile.

The extremes today are between those who are accepted as members of the CFR Council of Foreign Relations and the Tri Lateral Commission One World Goverment type organizations
verses
those who are extreme Gian enviormentalists, individualists and religious extremeists willing to fight for a one world religion. (the fringes have many strands)

Floating above all these factions are those who falsly worship and collect all the money there is and ever will be as proof of their power, intelligence and superior plan for the favored few and the unwashed needless eaters alike.
Some may call them the owners of the banks or the Bilderburg coalition, but it is easier to call them the Extreme banksters. Yet they too are feeble fools who in the end will leave less a legacy than the Great Pyramid of Giza. There are no gates strong or deep enough to give them the security they dream of. Mind you they do have some amazing things that you are not to know about, but those too shall pass.

In the path of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons that are used strategicly to achieve desired goals of power, lies more than mortal human players. It is the entire bio mass of the planet and all the natural forces beneath and above the Earth that will have the last say.

When you said that rational and irrational are the same thing you can see how they can both lead to fatal conflict for all.

Where is the win win scenario? It is iamagined by each of us in their own way. Sometimes it feels like a mere whisp of imagination is all than keeps us from falling off the razor's edge of a thin middle road. Please keep the middle road alive.

It is as grim as it sounds. With the advent of near immortality science a conflict will arise as to who shall have it vs who deserves it and the fact everyone will want it. For every wonderful advance, there will be terrible conflict.

I guess we just have to choose are conflicts wisely. Fertile soil and water are grossly overlooked as what is worth fighting for today.

As Amos said, "Though the imagination is great, it is the worst place to take refuge."

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 04:39 PM

Here's a very interesting talk on the subject of the rational mind and the intuitive mind and how they work together:

http://fora.tv/2009/02/19/Jonah_Lehrer_Inside_My_Mind#fullprogram

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Ed T
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 04:18 PM

Gerd Gigerenzer gave us a different perspective on the value of reacting to a "gut feeling" , that some may see as irrational, versus relying on a well thought out reaction, that some may see as rational:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/28/science/28conv.html

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 03:50 PM

I think the compelling question is to understand what the difference is between the two, if in fact "reason" is any sort of referent at all, which I believe it is. The difference largely lies in the intention to differentiate, compare, and assess versus the intention to act out, react, and transmit rhetorical evaluations based on those reactions. Obviously, there are an infinite number of degrees between the extremes of maximum reason and maximum reactionary dramatization.

ANother interesting question is how the reactionary mechanisms get set up in the first place. Two people can go through the same trauma and one will rise above it and leave it behind while the other drags it forward in time and lets it discolor all his perceptions from that time forward. If we knew what that process was, exactly, some sort of healing process would become more likely. At present, PTSD is often treated with Valium or comparable psychoactive chemicals and the causes are never addressed.

A

A

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 03:26 PM

One of the most rational concepts in economics is the model of irrational consumer behavior.

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Ed T
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 03:24 PM

Rational and irrational, they can (subjectively) be both at the same time, depending on your persoective. For example, this statement could be both:"How can I miss you if you won't go away?"
Maybe the words are more like "flammable and when inflammable?"

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 10:58 AM

It may look like a blobfish, but I think of it as a reasonable representation of the blobbish, autonomic, stimulus-response mechanisms which account for the irrational in human thought.

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 04:19 AM

You can't fool me - That second one is a blobfish.

Here is the latest score...

Real Madrid: 2 - Surreal Madrid: A fish

DeG

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 12:40 AM

Man, BeeDub!!! You done achieved a Major Breakthrough capturing them in PICSHOORS!!!



A

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 09:50 PM

The Rational Mind


The Irrational Mind


See the difference?

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 08:39 PM

There's an old saying, SunrayFC, to the effect that, "I should know as little of trouble as
I know what you're saying." Bingo.

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 08:37 PM

Researchers have found that the rational part of the human mind is not capable of making rational decisions without the help of the intuitive (irrational?) part of the human mind.

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 07:43 PM

Rational v. irrational???

Depends on the situation... I mean, ain't that the entire point of rationalization??? Yeah, unless I missed something rationalization is all about turning the irrational into the rational... You know, like everything that Bush did...

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Lox
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 07:32 PM

You get none for ages ...


         ...then you get a rash on ....

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 07:20 PM

You mean.... the rational is rationed? I suspected!

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 06:42 PM

I just don't see rational posting as a major threat to BS section of this forum. There is so little of it. ;-)

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Joe_F
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 06:31 PM

It's hard for us rationals to find each other -- we're so scattered among the far more numerous reals.

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: GUEST,nix
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 06:03 PM

ok

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 05:56 PM

Duz he meen, Shamkbles is posting? I'm sure mods are "on the case" and responding a[p[proopriayately. They's gud at thet.

~S~

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 05:53 PM

It's not an accident that rational is the root of "rationalize" (Defend, explain, clear away, or make excuses for by reasoning)

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 03:34 PM

"I'm not concerned about all hell breaking loose, but that a PART of hell will break loose... it'll be much harder to detect"
George Carlin

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 03:26 PM

You goin' "Italian" on us now, Amos?

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 02:42 PM

The rational/irrational dichotomous divide has two major flaws in it.

One is that it is usually confined to intellectual forms of rationality; the notion that there are rational and irrational emotional vectors as well is greatly underweighted.

The other is that is is a compound and complex calculation, involving all the different scenarios of future well-being for each individual, plus their interactions and the compound dynamic of the groups they form (tribes, nations, or what have you) and other species and organic and inorganic systems add weight to the calculation as well. When it is treated as a two-valued analysis of simple propositional logic it itself becomes a tool of irrationality in the broader sense.

That's my story, anyway, and I'ma stickin' to it.


A

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 02:13 PM

*searching for a metaphor*

ummmm.."irrationality is like mowing your lawn blindfolded, from memory...you may eventually get the lawn cut, but you may go thru the flower beds and use way more fuel than needed."

Kinda weak? Well, I'll just say that I have spent most of my life taming my irrational side and allowing it only limited freedom when it is merely entertaining, and not endangering the flowers.

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 01:45 PM

I'll vote for Irrational on even days and rational on odd days and alternate Sundays, thanks!
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 01:40 PM

If it bugs you, do what Chongo does. Holler "KREE-GAH!!!", whip out your handy "gat" and fire off a few rounds randomly in various directions. Then kick the table over, smash the place up, and yell some more. You will feel much better, even if other people in the immediate vicinity don't.

My own prediction, by the way, is that Weymouth will suffer an utter and absolute drubbing, be totally humiliated before the entire world, and sneak home with bags over their heads, hoping that no one will notice. The team will then resign en masse and take up some other sport such as power lunching or tiddlywinks.

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 01:18 PM

It might be more rational to take into account that others are not presently looking into your mind and seeing your pictures; to overcome this, people usually include objective referents so others can figure out what is being discussed.

In general (I don't know what thread you're presently troubled by) people post their own viewpoints. Some do this to communicate. Others do it merely to dramatize their frustrations. Taking the source into account in each case is a rational thing to do in order to understand what was sent.


A

Subject: RE: Rational vs irrational
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 01:13 PM

Say what? I don't follow you in the least. Mind you, I think it's best to find one's own path if possible, rather than simply follow others, so maybe it's a good thing.

Subject: Rational vs irrational
From: SunrayFC
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 01:00 PM

I see some old contributors are returning to haunt us. How can this be better regulated.

Heaps of text sent, sent again, repeated. People can make their own minds up.

I wish this system was just about what it was intended to be about.

Looking forward to the Olympics. Weymouth will do well out of it and look good to the rest of the world.