BS: Petition to end Haiti $890 million debt

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to end Haiti $890 million debt
From: pdq
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 07:34 PM

The deforestation of Haiti is due, almost entirely, to the use of wood and charcoal for cooking.

The island is tropical, so not as much energy is needed for house-heating as say Canada or northern Europe.

Ultimately, the problem is overpopulation.

Some people need to stop blaming all of the world's problems on the United States.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to end Haiti $890 million debt
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 06:22 PM

Fuller information on the debt-

"On June 30th, Haiti reached "completion point" in the Heavily Indebted Poor Countries program cancelling $1.2 billion of debt."
This means that $1.2 billion in external debt owed by the impoverished nation to bilateral and multilateral lenders including the IMF, World Bank, and US government has been cancelled....."
(Discussion of loans to dictatorships, etc.)
"Haiti was scheduled to send more than $20 million to the World Bank in 2009- other lenders like the International Development Bank (IDB) had agreed to write off Haiti's debt payments, but the World Bank did not. But on April 15, 2009, Sec....Hilary Clinton pledged $20 million to cover Haiti's remaining debt payments to the World Bank and the Inter American Development Bank." .....
"While $1.2 billion of Haiti's debt was cancelled in June 2009....," Tthe country still had $891 million owed for debts since 2004....owed to Inter American Development Bank, IMF, and bilateral debt owed to Venezuela and Taiwan.

The USA, with strong voting power in IMF and IDB.... should be urged to secure immediate cancellation.... of these debts.

It is highly likely that the bank debts will be cancelled, but the Jubilee petition is still worthwhile.

I believe that repayment over time to Venezuela is written into the agreement on the building of a refinery; the payments to come from
the profits, but I could be wrong.
(Data from www.jubileeusa.org)

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to end Haiti $890 million debt
From: Penny S.
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 06:02 PM

They wouldn't have had to borrow recently if they had not had to repay that older debt first, because they would have had that money to invest in infrastructure etc. before 1947 - which is not that long ago, compared with the establishment of the nation.

The amount paid then makes France look like a loan shark. And the US. And anyone else involved who has been charging high levels of interest.

Anyone know how to get Baby Doc's bank account sequestered?

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to end Haiti $890 million debt
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 05:52 PM

PennyS, the debt that France imposed to repay the former slave owners for their lost "property" was repaid long ago. This is relatively contemporary borrowing from the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund and the Organizational of American States.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to end Haiti $890 million debt
From: Penny S.
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 05:48 PM

In addition, France deforested the place, shipping the timber back home, so the boundary between Haiti and the Dominican Republic is visible as a line between forest and almost bare ground. It is an appalling history.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to end Haiti $890 million debt
From: Penny S.
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 05:46 PM

The debt originated when Haiti declared independence from France which demanded reparations for loss of plantations and the slaves freed. Haiti borrowed from the USA to pay off France, and then had to pay the USA, which hence interfered with its elections to support those, such as the Duvaliers, who would protect its investment while siphoning off money for themselves. According to a letter in today's Guardian, the initial "debt" of 150,000,000 francs, subsequently reduced to 90,000,000 francs, was paid off in 1947, but the estimate of what had been paid to France, including interest was, in 2004, $21,685,135,571. No figure was given for what was paid to the USA. (And given one set of figures is in a sort of franc which may or may not be the most recent version, and the other in dollars, comparison is difficult.)

This is not normal debt, so artbrook's comments, normally valid, don't really count. Think how the USA would stand today if Britain had been able to apply the same pressures on its independence.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to end Haiti $890 million debt
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 05:28 PM

A debt is a debt. Nobody twisted anyone's arms when Haiti borrowed money for infrastructure and development (although I agree that a lot of it probably ended up in local politicians' bank accounts). IMHO, the theory that you pay what you owe, and if you don't want to be in debt don't borrow, applies equally to countries as to individuals.

Deferring repayment until the current crisis is over is another issue entirely.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to end Haiti $890 million debt
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 04:29 PM

Sorry, Tam...I didn't realise that..

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to end Haiti $890 million debt
From: Amos
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:49 PM

A grand idea, but I would like to know where the money actually went. Haiti's problems have always included endemic corruption.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to end Haiti $890 million debt
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 03:39 PM

received by email on the weekend and signed it then. also put the link in the Haiti thread and tweeted it on Twitter.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to end Haiti $890 million debt
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 02:59 PM

Looks like they saw it, Mary...but thanks anyway...and thank you, Mudelf. :0) x

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to end Haiti $890 million debt
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 01:58 PM

Lizzie - send a PM to Joe or kat for a change. They may not see this thread for days.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to end Haiti £890 million debt
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 01:52 PM

Would a kindly Mudelf please change the £ to $, in the title. Thank you very much. x

Subject: BS: Petition to end Haiti £890 million debt
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 01:51 PM

So I've come home to this round robin email...and I'm passing it on to all of you to pass on.....

>>>Hi,

Like millions of people around the world I've been shocked by the terrible events in Haiti.

Only now is the true scale of the disaster emerging. Reports now suggest as many as 50,000 people may have died, with hundreds of thousands made homeless.

The work ahead to recover from this tragedy is immense. So here's our goal: $890 million for Haiti. Thatâ?Ts how much Haiti owes to the International Monetary Fund, the Inter-American Development Bank, and a handful of others.

Sign the petition below to ask Haiti's creditors to act quickly and cancel Haiti's debts:

http://one.org/international/actnow/haiti/index.html?rc=upgradeaidmailto

As Haiti begins to rebuild we can help by lifting this debt.

Together as ONE we can make a difference!

Thanks!<<<<


And here is where you sign:

The ONE Petition to stop the Haitian Debt