BS: Our love of the French...lol!

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jan 10 - 04:58 PM

Here we go: It's being reissued: Photos of the great French funny man Fernandel by Philippe Halsman: The Frenchman

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jan 10 - 04:54 PM

I have a book called "The Frenchman" which I'll have to find and find out the French Comedian who appeared in it, and the American company that published it.
I doubt that it could be published today, although it is harmless. If it was used to depict any race and other nationalities it would be rejected as utterly un-PC and racist, anti-nationialist, but it was done about THE FRENCH and the US has always had a kind of affectionate open season on the French, who in reality are a brave, extremely handsome, intellectually fierce and often admirable people.

The book is funny as hell. It consists merely of a page almost wholly blank, except for one question, usually about how this visiting Frenchman views Americans. The next page ia a photograph of the man's extremely mobile face.

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 23 Jan 10 - 02:49 AM

Love the people, love the country, love the culture, love going there, love being there, need to book a Ferry.

It was after reading histories if France that I realised that the Royal Families of France and England were closely related and endlessly inter-married for hundreds and hundreds of years. The purpose of inter-marriage was, of course, the ownership and control of land. And the wars and the propaganda that accompanied that struggle for land were made by the rulling class of each 'country'.

Far too much history to repeat here.

L in C

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: GUEST,Bob L
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 08:03 PM

There seems to be more than a grain of truth in the suggestion that the French (and Americans, come to that) individually are absolutely wonderful people, but as a nation are utterly impossible.

With the English, of course, it's the other way round...

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: Arnie
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 05:14 AM

Driving through central France in the '70's in a Triumph 2.5 (great car in it's day), the engine boiled over and we stopped miles from anywhere. After walking a few miles,, the first building I met was a garage - what luck! The owner drove me back to the car, took out the thermostat and drove me back to the garage to test it. He then disappeared into the adjoining old house, and came out a few minutes later followed by his wife, with my thermostat sitting in boiling water in one of their kitchen pans. This was his way of testing the thermostat, which turned out to be jammed shut. He then drove me back to the car, which was perfectly driveable without the thermostat. When I offered payment, he refused point blank but I think I ended up giving him about 10F. On that same holiday, I met with a really pig-ignorant anglophobe camp site owner.I've worked in northern France a lot and speak the lingo so I accept that the French are like people anywhere - some are awkward sods and others are real gems.

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 06:29 PM

Where would we be without the French? Good food, spirits, clothes, perfumes, arts and artists, pholosophers, language....and, from a historic perspective, some countries would not exist as we know them, (for example, USA, Canada and UK). There are goods and bads with every society/culture.

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 05:57 PM

Every time I visit France I have a great time.

Love the place.

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 02:37 PM

Ermmmm always found the French to be a respectful and easy going people... Whilst on tour many years ago... on my own.. in the North of France... I was parked in a lay-by... eating a baguette with cheese and that lovely white Butter when a man came running (which was surprising considering his age) from a house nearby to invite me into his house to watch England play Germany in the World Cup. His wife and himself treated me like royalty.... and I got to watch England beat Germany... great... I have been to Paris seven or maybe eight times and love the place and the people... I would rather go there than London!!!!!!!
No-one in my book can criticise the French... they are lovely people!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: Beer
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 11:00 AM

Right on ref.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: 3refs
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 09:50 AM

Let's not forget that here in Canada we have the largest population of French people that never surrendered to the Germans!

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: Beer
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 09:41 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG4ndbhOkpI

Adrien

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: Monique
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 07:59 AM

Hairy armpits: by WW II times, women didn't shave their armpits, now 90% do (the 10% must be old ladies who must think "why bother?"). I think that most didn't shave their legs either now they do.
War...
"Quand les hommes vivront d'amour
Il n'y aura plus de misère,
Les soldats seront troubadours,
Mais nous, nous serons morts, mon frère..."

Quand les hommes vivront d'amour(sigh!) Raymond Levesque - Canada (two links, the second with lyrics displaying)

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: TheSnail
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 06:00 AM

Not as succinct but saying very much the same as -

"Cheese-eating surrender monkeys," - Groundskeeper Willie

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: bubblyrat
Date: 21 Jan 10 - 05:40 AM

I have never understood my fellow Englishmens' aversion to the Fro sorry,the French.There seems to be a marked antipathy towards two great French institutions, viz Garlic and Hairy Armpits ; I personally find the former delicious,and the latter,at least in French women,most alluring ! But then I have had the advantage of knowing (although not all in the Biblical sense) several quite delightful French ladies ,including Monique (as in Barry Batten's wife & Julian B's mum ).From them I have learned much,including some interesting French expressions.
            Indeed,one of them,Madame B.... from Amiens, once showed me a small but comprehensive book,copies of which were distributed amongst American GIs in WW2,debunking a great many cruel myths about French people ,and listing their many great national achievements in the fields of art,medicine,and science,etc.
          Personally, I like the French very much,but I wouldn't necessarily want to rely on them as allies in another war !

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 08:01 PM

Awesome Mustard, I use it on every hot dog ... French's spicy mustard, awesome

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: Monique
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 11:19 AM

Intercultural differences between France and the USA, Cultural differences. I couldn't find anything about Britain/France.

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: Beer
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 10:05 AM

Then there was a very wise gentleman by the name of Inspector Clouseau.

ad

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 09:46 AM

There's a neat little book called "The Clumsiest People In Europe", edited by Todd Pruzan and originally written by Mrs. Favell Lee Mortimer. The subtitle tells it all: "Mrs. Mortimer's Bad-Tempered Guide To The Victorian World."

Before reading this book I never knew that the Welsh, for example, were industrious but unclean, even though they whitewash their huts and even pigsties at least once a year. The English, of course, could be the happiest people in the world because there are so many bibles there.

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: Monique
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 02:29 AM

There's a Wiki entry about André de Coutances in French and a very short one in Spanish. The original text -somewhat modernized- is there

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: frogprince
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 08:50 PM

...and the French are reputed to be a lot like that, too!

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: frogprince
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 08:49 PM

The Frencg, they are a remarkable race;
They fight with their feet, and make love with their face.

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: Beer
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 02:06 PM

100 % Acadian descent.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: Monique
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 01:36 PM

Our teacher of sociolinguistics would tell us, "Don't take people's sayings at face value. Your first question must be 'Who speaks' and everything will get another shade".
One thing hasn't changed so far: we still love to eat!

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 10:46 AM

Owre Kynge went forth to Normandie
With Grayce and myght of chevalrie
The Godde for him wrought wondroslie
Wherefor Engelonde may call and crye

Deo Gratias Angliae
Reddens pro victoriae

Merde alors - qu'ils m' embetent.

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 01:00 AM

My mother's mother came over on the boat from France. She taught us French songs when we were little, and she spoke French to us. I enjoyed that quite a lot. I attribute my joi de vivre to her. She had it in spades.

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: mousethief
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 12:41 AM

My mother's father was of almost unbroken French descent. I don't know much about France, and my French is pretty limited ("learn while you drive" CDs), but I honour their brave poilus from the Great War, and I love their wine.

It is funny that the British attitude toward them is so old. (I wonder if a similarly ancient poem can be found from the opposite point of view?) But it is a pretty weak poem. Maybe it would be better in Auld Anguish.

O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 12:10 AM

Not a very good poet, imo.

With an ancestress whom we think was French in Nova Scotia and myself being married to an American of French-Canadian descent, I am rather partial to them. There are a few French actors who make it pretty enticing, too. We usually really enjoy French films.

Subject: RE: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 12:01 AM

Being French has its good aspects (or part French, in my case). It's one of the things I like the best about myself.

Subject: BS: Our love of the French...lol!
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 18 Jan 10 - 11:02 PM

Thank God some things never change... Laughing, hope some catter can set the poem to music.

The French

Lazy, arrogant cowards: how English saw French in 12th century
A twelfth-century poem newly translated into English casts fresh light on the origin of today's Francophobic stereotypes.


By Jonathan Wynne-Jones
Published: 7:30AM GMT 17 Jan 2010

Although it is meant to be an 'entente cordiale', the relationship between the English and the French has been anything but neighbourly.

When the two nations have not been clashing on the battlefield or the sporting pitch they have been trading insults from 'frogs' to 'rosbifs'.


Now the translation of the poem has shown just how deep-rooted in history the rivalry and name-calling really is.

Written between 1180 and 1194, a century after the Norman Conquest united England and Normandy against a common enemy in France, the 396-line poem was part of a propaganda war between London and Paris.

Poet Andrew de Coutances, an Anglo-Norman cleric, describes the French as godless, arrogant and lazy dogs. Even more stingingly, he accuses French people of being cowardly, and calls them heretics and rapists.

It has taken David Crouch, a professor of medieval history at Hull University, months to complete the translation of what is one of the earliest examples of anti-French diatribe.

The poem was written at a time when Philip II of France was launching repeated attacks on Normandy, taking advantage of in-fighting within the English royal family.

Prof Crouch says that the poem is of great interest to historians because of its "racial rhetoric", which was deployed by Anglo-Norman intellectuals in support of their kings' bitter political and military struggle.

While rivalry between the English and their Gallic neighbours now only tends to surface at sporting occasions and European summits, the poem recalls battles between the two countries and describes the vices of the French in detail.

In one passage, it claims that "eating is their religion" and warns that dining with them is not a pleasant experience.

"A man who dines with the French/ should grab whatever he may/ as either he will end up with the nuts/ or will just carry off the shallots," the poet writes.

"When they're abroad they're even more greedy/And shamefully gorge themselves at every table/Whenever they get near one.

"And whenever hosts have them in their homes/they realise the French are such men/So greedy and so avaricious/That he ought to drive them off with kicks."

"Intellectuals were deployed to compose diatribes against the enemy," said Prof Crouch.

"This poem was poisonously undermining the French and their national legend while promoting the legend of King Arthur."

The poet refutes criticisms of King Arthur and celebrates a legendary victory over Frollo, the French ruler who is portrayed as lazy and incompetent.

"Lying flat out without stirring himself/Frollo got the French to equip him/For that is the way of the French/ Getting their shoes on while lying down," he writes.

Having described at length the cowardly nature of the French, he even claims, wrongly, that Paris derived its name from the word 'partir', which means to flee.

He calls the French "serfs" and "peasants" in an attempt to suggest that they are a race without nobility, adding: "People remind them often enough about this source of shame, but they may as well have not bothered; for they take neither offence or account, as they know no shame."

Using phrases reminiscent of the insults used by the French knights in the film Monty Python and the Holy Grail, de Coutances says the French "live more vilely than a dog" and calls them "rascals" and "mockers".

Extracts from the Roman des Frances by Andrew de Coutances:

On King Arthur leading the English against France

Arthur besieged Paris, doubt it not at all!

He had a large force of

Well trained and equipped knights,

So he fiercely attacked the city.

The English went on the attack,

And the French defended like cowards,

They gave up at the first onset

And shamefully ran away.

It was from this flight [partir] that

Paris got its name, there is no concealing it,

Originally the place was called Thermes

And was indeed very famous.

On France's humiliation

Arthur took homage from the French

And he established as a release-payment

A four-pence charge for being a peasant

To be paid as their poll tax.

People remind them often enough about

This source of shame, but they may as well not have bothered;

For they take neither offence or account,

As they know no shame.

Such a Frenchman as does value virtue and honour

Will not like it of course,

But so far as he is the more ashamed

He will boast twice as much

So know that, wherever you go,

Believe a Frenchman not at all;

Seek indeed and you shall find

But you find no prowess if there's none to be had.

On French culinary habits

A man who dines with the French

Should grab whatever he may

As either he will end up with nuts

Or will just carry off the shallots

A Frenchman would need to own the world

To live as well as he would like.

Because that is something that cannot happen

The French know to hold what provisions they have.

That's the way they are in their own land

But when they're abroad they're even more greedy

And shamefully gorge themselves at every table

Whenever they get near one.

And whenever hosts have them in their homes

They realise the French are such men

So greedy and so avaricious

That he ought to drive them off with kicks.