BS: Education Reform in the US

Subject: RE: BS: Education Reform in the US
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 12:46 PM

PS, I wonder if the unnamed guest is any relation to Mad Lizzie Cornish? She seems to share the same attitude to kids actually putting in any effort.

Subject: RE: BS: Education Reform in the US
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 12:45 PM

Leenia makes good points.

Subject: RE: BS: Education Reform in the US
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 12:43 PM

The gratuitousness of point#6 indicates to me that saulgoldie is not interested in a serious discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Education Reform in the US
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 12:04 PM

To which I add:

1.Does your school have adequate funding and adequate physical plant & supplies, to fulfill its mandate, or has the school budget been voted down for the last 10 years??

2. What is the relationship between the budget for the Football Team and other Team Sportsd as opposed to that for the Music Program and the Library?

Subject: RE: BS: Education Reform in the US
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 09:50 AM

Everybody talks about the teachers and the school officials when discussing education. Let me ask:

Did your kid have a good breakfast?

Did he have a good night's sleep?

Did he do his homework last night?

or did he watch violent media and is now overexcited and babbling?

Does he speak English?

If he gets a good grade, will another kid punch him in the stomach?
==========
You want to improve learning? Start at the beginning.

Subject: RE: BS: Education Reform in the US
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 01:00 AM

"Teapublicans" - Saulgoldie, I like it. I do hope the condition passes on soon, however.

Subject: RE: BS: Education Reform in the US
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 12:48 AM

It's 4:30 on a hot July afternoon. 34 second graders are sitting in an unventilated classroom, doing worksheets.
Their school has the duct work for air conditioning, but the schoolboard didn't have the money to install an air conditioner. The building has few windows, mostly small, narrow, and set high up which makes them hard to open.
The classroom is cooled by a big, noisy electric fan. So children are sitting in a stuffy, smelly classroom trying to concentrate on fill in the blank work sheets.
One of the first grade teachers lets her students nap on hot afternoons.
A third grade teacher shows videos.
This second grade class has the bad luck to be stuck with one of those teachers, who keeps them doing worksheets all day every day.
There are, by the way, 39 kids in the class. Four of those kids have parents who keep them at home on very hot days, rather than allow them to sweat in a hot classroom. One cut school with his older brother.
Go up the hall to the sixth grade classroom, and you'll see most of the boys are absent. They cut school on hot days, and hang out, maybe by the river, maybe in somebody's air conditioned house. Before we make the school year longer, we have to change the way school works.

Subject: RE: BS: Education Reform in the US
From: gnu
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 02:09 PM

The mayor of Washington DC (saw him on Bill Mahar's TV show) did a great job with the schools (as reported in that TV show). He lost in the election last week.

Subject: RE: BS: Education Reform in the US
From: Amos
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 11:28 AM

What we want educators to do is to produce able students--able to read, able to communicate, able to think critically, able to do higher math, able to work tools and machines, able to follow a line of scientific discovery and understand it, able to balance a budget, plan a meal, write an essay, and able to vote knowledgeably. On the way we want students who are able to define words and spell them, solve long division and fractions, read War and Peace and All The King's Men without fainting, and do algebra. Being able to read music and play an instrument is a bonus. Being able to tell an impressionist painting from a Renoir also good.

What we do NOT want is children able to guess at multiple choice, able to discuss the characters on television, able to brag about video game scores, able to lie about drugs (although that may be good training).

Traditionally outcomes were adjudicated by educators with grades, a system which had some drawbacks when narrow minds met rebellious students. But that was a problem with the personnel, probably, more than the process itself. You aren't going to find an empirical method for assessing the quality of understanding generated in an individual and it is silly to try. But we've proven that we are really good at being silly.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Education Reform in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 08:47 AM

Well, Saul, we either get serious about education 'er we can look at becomin' the only 3rd world nation with a nuke...

Yeah, I know that the Repubs don't want nobody knowing too much... They are perfectly willing to allow the country to slip into Epsilon Nation for short term gains but I don't think they have looked at exactly what kind of country their grandkids will have if we don't turn it around... Of course, the Repubs will always point to "teacher's unions" as 100% of the problem... But that is their usual excuse for anything that is broken...

There was a report the other night on India on one of the news stations... Heck, it might have been "60 Minutes" but that ain't the poinbt... The point is that there is one major reason that India is a fertile place for jobs and that is that India places importance on education...

BTW, Michelle Rhee, IMHO, was a great school superintendent for Washington, D.C. and look what has happened to her...

B~

Subject: BS: Education Reform in the US
From: saulgoldie
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 06:23 AM

I just saw the movie "Waiting for Superman" and followed it with a spirited discussion. Some of the points that were raised were
1) What do we want our schools to do, anyway?
2) The movie focused on "high performance expectations" for students and teachers;
3) How do we measure outcomes?
4) Teachers unions are the "enemy."
5) "Education consists of reading, science, and math;
6) If you are a Teapublican, education is a myth, just like global climate change, evolution, the fact that the founders meant the Constitution to be rigid and fixed forever and ever, and, of course, the laws of gravity;
7) The current annual timetable of semesters and Summers off is an outdated relic of a time when we were primarily an agrarian society and needed the time off for farm duties; and
8) longer school days (which preclude other activities, like unstructured play) were a GOOD thing.

Catters, have at it!

Saul