BS: To hire day labor / illegal aliens?

Subject: RE: BS: To hire day labor / illegal aliens?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 04:10 PM

FYI

As a legal immigrant to the US I am morally opposed to hiring illegals. I don't like queue jumpers and rewarding their criminality makes the problem worse. On the other hand, the US does not allow enough legal immigration to get a lot of lower paid work done. If it were up to me I would let more in but tax them heavily. The temporary work permit would cost at least as much as them hiring a coyote to sneak them in.

Subject: RE: BS: To hire day labor / illegal aliens?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 10:25 AM

Very true - you take your chances. Most of the day laborers are probably honest but if you run into a situation like the one Sinsull described - how do you track them down? You really don't know who you're dealing with.

Subject: RE: BS: To hire day labor / illegal aliens?
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 02:22 PM

There is a corner on Roosevelt Avenue in NYC where illegals gather every morning to be picked for day labor. One local painter routinely hired some every day to help with painting apartments. Once (only once) he left to get supplies and came back to find the laborers gone along with a variety of electronics and jewelry.
Typical? No. But you get what you pay for.

Subject: RE: BS: To hire day labor / illegal aliens?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 10:47 AM

As Jack the Sailor said - there's a legal question and a moral one. Legally, you could get in trouble if, say, your neighbors decided to call the INS, and the INS had nothing better to do than investigate a couple of suspected illegal yard workers. (I think they prefer to concentrate their efforts on bigger operations where they'll round up a large group at one time). Also, what if someone got injured on the job. I presume the nursery would have workers comp insurance that would take care of their employees, but what would you do if someone accidentally sliced off a finger or fell off a ladder?

I think there would be nothing at all that was morally wrong with hiring these day workers as long as you pay them a reasonable wage. When I lived in New Jersey I did some volunteer work with day workers, mostly from Guatemala and El Salvador. They're just people trying to make a living and send what they can back to their families. They'd probably do a great job for you.

The other thing to keep in mind is make sure you know what needs to be done - how deep the trees need to be planted, etc.   That's things the nursery would know, but the day workers will need supervision.

Subject: RE: BS: To hire day labor / illegal aliens?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 04:28 PM

The nursery folks will provide a written quotation which will outline what is to be done and they will guarantee their work.

Me? I would hire a couple of local teenagers and supervise the work and pay them cash as long as their parents agreed it was okay.

I was mowing lawns, trimming hedges, shovelling manure and snow... at 12 years old. I put myself through university and it was because I did shit jobs for FAR LESS than any minimum wage. Back then, we didn't have high unemployment and we didn't have illegal aliens because we had youths that actually got off their asses and did work for elderly people at a price they could afford.

I would go on but youse get the idea. There is no sense of hard work or of community anymore... just laziness and "what can I getout of it?"

Hire a kid or two and be done with it.

Subject: RE: BS: To hire day labor / illegal aliens?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 03:34 PM

The bottom line is, you should pay them a fair wage for the work they do, which I would imagine would be rather more than $10 an hour.

Subject: RE: BS: To hire day labor / illegal aliens?
From: pdq
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 02:52 PM

"You have about 25 or 30 plants you want moved and replanted around your house. The local nursery has quoted $60.00 per plant to do the job."

The choice between paying the nursery $1,800.00 and paying the guys on the corner 50 bucks is a false from the start. Those are not your only choices.

First, you can do it yourself at a cost of nothing.

Second, you can call friends or someone at your church and get help. Again, no cost.

Also, any landscaper will give you an estimate and probably do a better job than the nursery folks. The price suggested is absurd, and I have done some landscape work. Most of the pros are barely surviving right now and would take any job offered. They will dig a big enough hole and put the proper amendments in, which the street corner guys probably know nothing about.

Subject: RE: BS: To hire day labor / illegal aliens?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 12:54 PM

"Americans have to remember that anyone who came from Old Europe were illegal aliens as well. Read your history."

I have read the history. The Spanish, French and Brits were not illegal aliens. They were conquerors... invaders... and they did their job well.

Subject: RE: BS: To hire day labor / illegal aliens?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 12:48 PM

One of the things which Lady Hillary and I do is per diem work at various movie sets. As extras, non-unionized, we get all the abuse that casual workers get, including discrimination in treatment on the job and, sometimes, getting stiffed for the work. One of the things we and other members of our group have agreed on is not to go to jobs which pay less than minimum wage.

Also, we are working on our congressional reps to get another change in the Fair Labor Standards Act to get equal treatment for all casual workers. This means that all of these jobs must get paid at least minimum wage; if anyone on the site gets fed, everyone gets fed or given a fair stipend for food; reasonable length breaks [Have you ever seen 200 people lined up to go to the toilet or have a snack during a 10 minute break?] and other issues.

Fair is fair.

At present, the only stipulation for hiring is that the person being hired is legally allowed to work in America. There have to be reasonable requirements of the employer.

During the shoot for "Arthur," [the current release], even the union extras were given substandard food and drink. We were expected to sit in our seats during the wedding scene and watch the "crafts" people being fed several times during the day. When we were given breaks, we had to line up for cups of water and, if you were early enough in the line, a piece of fruit.

During the shoot for Adjustment Bureau, everyone, even the stars was treated equally, in that everyone stood in the cold for hours at a time and was fed acceptable quality food.

Both were major studio productions but there was a major difference in the way we were treated. This has got to change.

PS, we do this for pocket money, not because we have to. The money barely covers expenses.

Subject: RE: BS: To hire day labor / illegal aliens?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 12:12 PM

Americans have to remember that anyone who came from Old Europe were illegal aliens as well. Read your history.

Subject: RE: BS: To hire day labor / illegal aliens?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 11:58 AM

Sorry about the typos, stiff fingers from doing my own yard work.

Subject: RE: BS: To hire day labor / illegal aliens?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 11:56 AM

I think it is only racial profiling if you use the stereotype observed in law enforcement or to take similar action. I would think that having observed in random sweeps that a high percentage of day laborers do are undocumented, ICE agents could concentrate on day laborers among other sources in their searces.

Are you asking this as a legal question or a moral one?

Legally, in some states, you are required to check the immigration status. In all states I believe you are legally required to report the employment and submit with holdings and taxes. Morally, it depends on how you feel about illegal immigration.

Have you looked into calling a temp agency an trying to hire two guys who have papers? Alternately How about high school kids? In Columbus GA, Where I lived for a few years. I saw lots of day laborers whose ancestry was certainly African. But they were probably citizens. It is probably a matter of looking a little harder.

Subject: RE: BS: To hire day labor / illegal aliens?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 11:56 AM

Here in UK you face a fine of up to £10,000 for employing an illegal worker. You're supposed to scrutinise their papers and photocopy them for the Inspectors to verify. I suppose one could be accused of depriving the legal workers of jobs, and also exploiting the illegals, some of whom are paid a pittance. In Lincolnshire, a vast agricultural region, some farmers have been caught paying £1 an hour to illegals (minimum wage here is about £5.80) But I also sympathise with the poor souls who are desperate to find work of any sort. Tricky one!

Subject: RE: BS: To hire day labor / illegal aliens?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 10:30 AM

What kind of plants?

Subject: BS: To hire day labor / illegal aliens?
From: Wesley S
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 10:06 AM

In our town there are several spots where you can find guys standing around looking for day work. A cursory glance would indicate that they are mostly hispanic. And yes - that's racial profiling.

Here's the premise: You have about 25 or 30 plants you want moved and replanted around your house. The local nursery has quoted $60.00 per plant to do the job. The other option is to hire two guys from the street corner who will work for $10.00 an hour to do the job - it should take about 5 hours to do it right.

Do you pay the nursery?
Do you hire the two guys who might be illegal?
Is it any of your business if these guys are illegal aliens or not?