BS: Punishment Fitting Crime, Not

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment Fitting Crime, Not
From: gnu
Date: 12 Jun 11 - 07:02 PM

Unreal. I record many of my phone calls on digital and video... camera focused on the phone display with the day's newspaper included. Not admissable under Canuck law but it sure is when you speak to "the boss" of someone who fucked up.

Earley on in my engineering project management career I coined the phrase, "If it ain't in writing, it didn't happen." That can be "tweaked" with new tech. Not in a court of law but in a court of "that is NOT what I said you fuckin asshole". Worked for me many times.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment Fitting Crime, Not
From: Janet Stevenson (troll alert contact max)
Date: 12 Jun 11 - 06:46 PM

The punishment must fit the crime and make it mandatory that a full sentence is served when the crime involves rape murder and aggravated violence...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/100-000-offenders-recalled-jail-213352417.html

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment Fitting Crime, Not
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 11:09 AM

A public figure in a public place HAS no right to privacy in that place... so the judge was wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment Fitting Crime, Not
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 08:27 AM

So it's a crime in the USA to take a video clip of someone without getting their permission? Presumably the same would apply to taking an audio recording. How about a photograph?

So you've got a rather extreme right of free speech, but no right to listen to what is said, or watch it being said...

I can't understand how any public servant in the course of carrying out their work can conceivably claim a "right of privacy". Perhaps there might be some other grounds on which recording can reasonably be forbidden in certain situations, or publication of such recordings, but "personal privacy" can have nothing to do with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment Fitting Crime, Not
From: alanabit
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 08:06 AM

On the face of it, the police and other enforcement agencies are being given the right to keep the way they operate secret and prevent any evidence from coming to light when they behave badly. The implications of this are quite frightening and I think I am with John on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment Fitting Crime, Not
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 10:41 PM

Interesting. The story is ather ambiguous though. On the one hand it says that the charges are routinely dropped; on the other it says that he/some face sentences of up to 75 years imprisonment if convicted.

It would be even more interesting if the goings-on in one courtroom/city/state could be transferred and tried in a different region of the country. Hard to believe the plaintiffs (cops/judges/or whatever) wouldn't be laughed out of court.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment Fitting Crime, Not
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 10:21 PM

alanabit--those are not my facts, but direct quotation of the article. You can paste the address and read the whole article yourself.

I just read in a community paper here in the L.A. foothills about a young man who was arrested and charged with "'attempted lynching' of a police officer" in this case a school cop. No, he did not try to hang him, from a lamppost nor in any way, apparently, have any physical contact with him, nor even incite others to do anything. What he did do was videoing, with his cell phone, the school officer allegedly harassing another student!

He was originally offered a "deal" of seven years in prison for this heinous crime, but eventually he was allowed to plead to resisting arrest (I guess because he then became the focus of the police guy's wrath) for which he is now on probation and his record will be expunged when he successfully completes probation.

The difference between the young man and Mr. Allison? Allison photographed and recorded his own encounter with the law, the lad took pictures of someone else's encounter. But to me there is no real difference. Law enforcers need to be held accountable for their actions when they do wrong. Sometimes only the fate of being videoed in the act...think Rodney King out here...will allow for justice to be done.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment Fitting Crime, Not
From: alanabit
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 04:05 PM

Going by the facts as you have presented them, I would agree. I wonder if there is more to this story?

Subject: BS: Punishment Fitting Crime, Not
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 03:54 PM

Chicago State's Attorney Lets Bad Cops Slide, Prosecutes Citizens Who Record Them by Radley Balko [e-mail]

Excerpt--
"When Allison was eventually charged with violating the zoning ordinance, he asked for a court reporter to ensure there would be a record of his trial. He was told that misdemeanor charges didn't entitle him to a court reporter. So Allison told court officials he'd be recording his trial with a digital recorder.

"When Allison walked into the courtroom the day of his trial, the judge had him arrested for allegedly violating her right to privacy. Police then confiscated Allison's digital recorder, where they also found the recordings he'd made of his conversations with cops.

"Allison Has No Prior Criminal Record. If Convicted, He Faces Up To 75 Years In Prison." [Caps mine for emphasis]

Complete column, if you're interested, at-
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/08/chicago-district-attorney-recording-bad-cops_n_872921.html?icid=maing-grid7|netscape|dl1|sec1_lnk1|69598

If the facts are as the author states, I believe this is wrong-headed on two counts. Folks should be able to have an audio/visual record of their encounters with law enforcement...law enforcement has that tool to use, so fair is fair. And even if the the law itself is valid, the potential punishment is way out of line! Armed robbery and other violent crimes often are less punishable. I believe the potential prison sentence is actually a way to keep such a defendant from protecting his rights. This is truly a case of the punishment being cruel and unusual for a non-violent iffy crime.