BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 06:52 PM

>>Yes, time to close a useless thread. Sorry I posted to it.

If you feel that way, I'm sorry you posted too.

Ron,

There is no one forcing you to read and reply to me. But you know that. As I said, Your observations aren't a problem. It is the personal attacks that offend.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 05:35 PM

In the days of Soviet propaganda I was a young visitor in Leningrad (now St. Petersburg) to a 'Dom Druzhby' or 'House of Friendship'. I was in a 50 plus strong American group and there were similar sized French and Italian groups of students with us. There were four Soviet kids to meet us. But first, the movies. We were shown a couple of films, which to put it mildly were obvious propaganda bits, one showing all the violent demonstrations that went on in the West against the War in Vietnam, and contrasted with quiet shots of med technicians teaching blind folks to read and write. I think the message was that the Soviets were spending State funds helping their citizens to get the most use of their remaining senses while the Westerners couldn't deal with the ones they had.

anyhow, the French student group got up and left. The Italian student group got up and left. The Americans, true to form, waited for the end of the movie. Then about 90% of them got up and left. I hung around hoping to get one of the female Soviet kids to chat with, instead I got a male with a bad perm. When he asked what I thought of the kino I replied that I would never disagree with a product of the great Soviet system, that I personally shot black people in the streets of Boston! He said "you're joking" after which we had a relatively fair discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 02:38 PM

Yes, time to close a useless thread. Sorry I posted to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 11:03 AM

Gee, Jack, I hope the person holding a gun to your head forcing you to read my postings takes the gun away soon.

My observations stand--and I am not the only one who feels this way.

The only problem is the time wasted in such "discussions".    And i try to minimize that. Perhaps others could do the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 03:29 PM

Ron Davies,

Are we discussing what you should do? If that is the case, here is what I think.
You should stop making personal attacks and dial down the sarcasm a bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 03:21 PM

My numbers come from US Government websites mostly.

Is there a specific fact that you want me to source? Would you like to ask me a question about my position on certain things? Glad to oblige Sir.

We can discuss facts instead of high school level personal insults.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 12:45 AM

Give your head a shake, Jack.    Q has it right--and I should learn that asking for facts around here from most people left of center is pounding sand. They live and breathe conspiracy theories.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 09:37 PM

Sawzaw, What are your qualifications in economics? Have you studied macroeconomics? or is it all from the Tea Party websites?

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 07:53 PM

I saw on AJ a few days ago that the Taliban had 2 French hostages for over 500 days and they were just released.

Where was that on MSM? Maybe I missed it.

I saw this Webster Tarpley on TV, it my have been RTV, calling for the US to print up and inject money into the Economy "in tranches of a trillion dollars" until the economy is fixed.

That would be like drilling more holes in the boat until the leak was fixed.

He sounds like a kook to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 12:41 AM

You should ask for facts Ron. But if you reread your "request", don't you seem a tad irritable.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 12:03 AM

Oh well, can't fight city hall.

Sorry all, I forgot where I was.    Mr. Campin, please disregard any request for facts. You will only be graded on entertainment value, as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: michaelr
Date: 30 Jun 11 - 11:09 PM

If Tarpley were locked up, that would mean his theories are correct, wouldn't it?

Thing is, you can't prove he's wrong, any more than someone else can prove he's right. It all comes down to faith...

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 Jun 11 - 09:52 PM

Underwear is fine, Jack.   Does your chewing gum lose its flavor...?

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Jun 11 - 09:30 PM

Webster Tarpley is a master of conspiracy theories, so outlandish that don't understand why he isn't under restraint in a secure facility.
Mudcat has its share of not only "half-baked" but cowpie quality lefties; no point in trying to reply to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: michaelr
Date: 30 Jun 11 - 09:16 PM

Webster Tarpley says the "rebels" in Libya are rival Al Qaeda factions who call in NATO airstrikes on each other, and that Gaddafi has the backing of five-sixths of his countrymen.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jun 11 - 09:16 PM

Gees Ron, is you underwear pinching you?

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 Jun 11 - 09:03 PM

Thank you, Mr. Campin, for giving us more of your comic relief.   I trust you're a better musician than political thinker. It shouldn't be difficult..

And don't forget to give us the actual evidence of the Sudetenland parallel you imagine in Libya.

NB:   evidence means facts (not half-baked leftist conspiracy theories).   Perhaps you've heard of the concept of facts.    Or--based on some of your recent postings-- perhaps not.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 08:38 PM

There are different versions of AJ in different languages. For all I knoiw the Arabic version could be highly biased.

However the only bias I can detect in the English version is when they talk about Palestinians vs Jews.

Even than they present both sides and do not name call.

It is refreshing to see something presented so that you can decide for yourself. unlike US MSM who has already decided for you and then goes about their subjective reasoning. Scroom.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 05:13 PM

I think that it is naive to think that any reporter is not aware of the sensitivities of the person signing the cheques. Even PBS tries not to piss off the tote bag junkies.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 04:39 PM

Since when is the war on Libya anything to do with Gaddafi?

It's about installing a compliant regime which will hand over Libya's oil whatever the people of Libya have to say in the matter.

The new regime the West installs will be vastly more repressive than Gaddafi ever was.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: bobad
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 04:35 PM

"They should be able to target him for drone attack."

He won't be sticking his nose above the parapet anytime soon, his days are numbered and he will soon be scurrying away like the rat he is.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 04:29 PM

A Gadaffi supporter? The sooner that man is incapacitated the better. They should be able to target him for drone attack.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 03:58 PM

The Emir of Qatar said explicitly when backing Al-Jazeera that there was going to be no interference on his part. And as far as I can tell he kept his word.

Until this year.

Qatar gets its snout in the trough over Libya

At which point Al-Jazeera fell quickly in line behind the imperialist powers in their war of expropriation against Libya. Their position isn't very different from the BBC's propaganda. They got nobbled.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 03:56 PM

Sawzaw has nailed an interesting news service. AlJazeera has details missed by BBCNews channel, not a fault of BBC, but reporters are sometimes in different places and get different aspects of a story.
The attack on Bin Laden is a case in point. Aljazeera was first, using their own or Pakistani cameras (I don't remember all the details), and showed over-the-fence pictures of the Seals scurrying around working on the downed helicopter. In the studio, one of their female reporters honestly said she didn't know what was happening.
CTV showed bits of the Pakistani coverage, but I never did see the Seal activity on their newscasts.

The Russian channel is also available here, but it is largely publicity for Russian business and government. As noted by Sawsaw, it is trying to sell the viewer on the country.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 02:58 PM

I don't watch Al Jazeera. But I do know that the English language service is paid for by a sheik, propped up by the west for oil money. They hire veterans of western media who say that they are not interfered with in their reporting. All media has a bias. Al Jazeera's is more pro-western than you think. You just have to keep in mind that the reporters are thinking "What is likely to piss off a self-important Oil Sheik?" before they decide to pursue a story. Just as an NBC reporter thinks "What is likely to piss off GE" and an ABC (US) reporter thinks "What will piss off Mickey Mouse?"

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 02:49 PM

For real propaganda Watch RTV, Russia today formerly Russian TV on MHZ networks or channel 30.4 WNVC-DT Merrifield VA.

Also if you want to see some real unbiased TV, as per Hillary, watch Al Jazeera TV 30.5 WNVC-DT


Hufpo:

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said on Wednesday that Al Jazeera is gaining more prominence in the U.S. because it offers "real news" -- something she said American media were falling far short of doing.

Clinton was speaking before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and she said the U.S. is losing the "information war" in the world. Other countries and global news outlets, she said, were making inroads into places like the Middle East more effectively than the United States has. One of the reasons she cited for this was the quality of channels like Al Jazeera. The channel, she said, was "changing peoples' minds and attitudes. And like it or hate it, it is really effective." U.S. news, she added, was not keeping up.

"Viewership of Al Jazeera is going up in the United States because it's real news," Clinton said. "You may not agree with it, but you feel like you're getting real news around the clock instead of a million commercials and, you know, arguments between talking heads and the kind of stuff that we do on our news which, you know, is not particularly informative to us, let alone foreigners."

During the height of the crisis in Egypt, The Huffington Post's Ryan Grim wrote about Al Jazeera English's near-total invisibility on U.S. television.

Media critics like Jeff Jarvis have also contrasted Al Jazeera with American news networks. "Vital, world-changing news is occurring in the Middle East and no one-not the xenophobic or celebrity-obsessed or cut-to-the-bone American media-can bring the perspective, insight, and on-the-scene reporting Al Jazeera English can," Jarvis wrote in January.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jun 11 - 10:23 PM

Russians?

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Jun 11 - 09:58 PM

"feeding paranoia and public ignorance"

And as such it would right in around here--with giant intellects among us wanting to tell us about the Sudetenland parallel with Libya --and other imaginative theories.

Look, the only way to look at it all is comic relief.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jun 11 - 05:39 PM

Some of the stuff these guys were sending me was speculation, presented as news, that Libya was attacked, this year, because a couple of times in the past he had suggested a gold backed Pan African currency. And that that currency so threatened the dollar that the US attacked Lybia. It went on to speculate that this new currency would be possible because Libya has more gold per capita than The Bank of England. AND that Iraq was invaded and sanctions imposed in 2003 and 2000 because in 2000 Saddam Hussein proposed a gold based currency.

This is not news. It is simply feeding paranoia and public ignorance.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Jun 11 - 05:22 PM

I used the RT site a bit for Fukushima coverage. It was sometimes the best stuff I found.

Subject: RE: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jun 11 - 05:16 PM

I am way behind the curve on this aren't I? Russian propaganda is just another media voice.

Subject: BS: Russian Propaganda, Here? Suceeding?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jun 11 - 06:20 AM

I kid you not! I got my first de-friending on Facebook yesterday. I won't say who. But the reason was my asking questions about and questioning his "libertarian" values. He and his friends seemed to have an awful lot of videos and other information at their fingertips. I've seen the same stuff since the 1970's but never so organized. Most of it was on videos with "RT" in the corner. I just found out it stands for "Russia Today." Russia Today is Putin's English language propaganda channel. If I had known I was up against Russian propaganda, I never would have tried to argue! Russian propaganda in 2011 and otherwise intelligent Americans eating it with a spoon. I kid you not!

Slate article.

RT website