BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 04:30 AM

McGrath

1. Civil liability is not a matter of "charge".

2. The (since somewhat evolved) duty of care in Caparo -v- Dickman applies to action, not inaction (unless there is a duty to act, which might, for example, in a auditor case, have arisen by contract).   Compare John Munroe -v- London Fire Brigade, (1997, CA) and Kent -v- Griffiths (No3) (2000, CA).

3. There is no obvious proximity between the "neb" and the drowning man.

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 07:13 PM

I'd have thought there'd be a good case for saying the thief was guilty of a failure of duty to care:

The leading judicial test for a duty of care in the United Kingdom was found in the judgments of Caparo Industries plc v Dickman,[1] in which the House of Lords set out the following three-part test:

Harm must be a "reasonably foreseeable" result of the defendant's conduct;

A relationship of "proximity" between the defendant and the claimant;

It must be "fair, just and reasonable" to impose liability.

(That comes from a Wikipedia article, which I believe is accurate enough.)

That was the only charge they allowed the police to be tried on after Jean Paul Menenzes was butchered on a London Tube train. And convicted.

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 07:02 PM

There have been reports from time to time of dolphins who, in a "man overboard" situation, have managed to keep someone afloat until help arrived. And in one instance at least, while some dolphins supported the human, others in the school ganged up and drove sharks away.

And most people regard them as "sub-human." The problem is that some humans are sub-human.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 06:58 PM

Absurd scenarios, here, might also include going after whoever sold the dead man so much ale that he couldn't ride his bike safely, thus they would be culpable.

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 06:17 PM

You can always come up with absurd scenarios - in which case I suppose there are things you can do to make it easier for the hitchhiker, like leaving a gallon of water and a parasol nearby and let them pick it up.

"Failure to render aid" is taken very seriously here in the U.S.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 04:16 PM

Yes, one assumes the hitchhiker had been in a car...

Or in Alaska, they might just need a ride out of the snow.

And maybe the lousy Samaritan saw a man SWIMMING and stole his bike?

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: Paul Burke
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 02:26 PM

Their car crashed or broke down?

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 04:14 AM

In some states it's illegal to pick up hitchihikers, in others it's illegal NOT to, like in Death Valley where they would die of dehydration before the next car came by...
One would be tempted to wonder how a hitchhiker got into Death Valley in the first place.
Not picking them up would seem to assist 'natural selection'.

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 02:00 AM

It's a word that was used for flyboys, chancers, wasters, chavs, in Salford back in the days when it was neither profitable nor popular. But call him whatever that stream of captiousness the Daily Mail likes to use at the moment if it distracts you.

I'm more worried about the callousness of the shit, and amazed that there appears to be no law capable of punishing such behaviour, in him and others.

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 12:56 AM

The W Pa meaning that Lady Jane cites, OTOH, presumably derives from the slang term "neb" for the nose ~~ hence a Prodnose or NoseyParker.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 12:54 AM

I took it that OP used "neb" as a colloquial abbreviation for "nebbish", a Yiddish word originally, meaning a feeble nonentity; or, in contemp common parlance, a "loser".

Is that indeed what you meant, Paul?

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: LadyJean
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 12:46 AM

Despicable, especailly these days when everyone carries cell phones! I think there are states where the law mandates that you must come to someone's aid if necessary. I know he ought to have gotten more than four months for being such a slime ball.

Incidentally, in Western Pennsylvania, where I live, a neb is an inquisitive person. What's a neb where you are?

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: open mike
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 02:39 PM

inexcuseable!

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 12:49 PM

In some states it's illegal to pick up hitchihikers, in others it's illegal NOT to, like in Death Valley where they would die of dehydration before the next car came by...

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: Becca72
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 09:04 AM

Depraved Indifference?

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 08:31 AM

Maybe there are some justified situations for water-boarding???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 08:08 AM

Yeah, but the fish might

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: Brian May
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 07:54 AM

Well it's not as if he NEEDED the bike anymore is it . . .

INCOMING . . . !

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: bobad
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 07:51 AM

In Canada

Obligation to Help Someone in Trouble

The common law provinces have no laws making it obligatory for people to help someone in need.

Quebec is unique in Canada in imposing a duty on everyone to help a person in peril. The duty to take action stems from the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms enacted in 1975, and the Civil Code.

The Charter contains a provision that imposes an obligation to render aid if it can be accomplished without serious risk to the good samaritan or a third person. There is still little jurisprudence interpreting these provisions.

Under the Civil Code, every person is obligated to act as a bon pere de famille, broadly defined as a reasonably prudent person. Failure to do so would amount to fault and lead to legal wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 03:47 AM

Manslaughter won't wash. There is no general activity duty. I can't think of any other suitable charge.

Subject: BS: Saw a man drowning- and stole his bike
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 02:00 AM

Should he have been charged with manslaughter? A drunk fell off his bike and into a canal. A neb came past and saw the bike, so he nicked it. He admits that he saw the man in the water, but did not alert anybody about this. He sold the bike for 20 pounds.

The drunk may well have passed to that Great Alehouse In The Sky when the thief saw him, and four months for stealing a bike seems reasonable, but should there have been some enhancement for his behaviour? If not manslaughter, what else could he have been charged with?