BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: frogprince
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 02:10 PM

"My friend Alex was employed for fifty-three minutes as The Human Cannonball with the circus"

999, you mean the feller known as Topical Tom? :)

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: gnu
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 02:00 PM

"In 2009, the national murder rate in Canada was 1.81 homicides per 100,000 population, compared to the mid-1970s when it was around 3.0."

As I recall, the oil crisis of 1973 led to financial crises... when inflation and interest rates went nuts, people started losing their jobs and homes, couldn't afford to feed their families... I wonder what will/has happened to the rates of violent crimes since 2009. The price of food here at least tripled in less than two years. A tin of salmon I paid 77p for 3 years ago is now $4.59. Interest rate today for someone with less than $5k in a savings acoount... 0.15%. On and on ad infinitum. I think crime rates may go up.

And, no, I don't think taking a life is a deterrent for people considering such crimes... not what I said at all Happy. But, it certainly is a consideration. Ah... that's another joke/point of logic.

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 11:25 AM

I heard that job was a real blast, brucie...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 11:21 AM

:)

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 10:30 AM

That was me.

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 10:27 AM

I almost forgot: My friend Alex was employed for fifty-three minutes as The Human Cannonball with the circus. Hired and fired in less than an hour.

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 10:23 AM

Trebuchet.

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 10:01 AM

"How do you shoot someone if you don't have a gun???"

Cross bow, long bow.

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 09:54 AM

While the murder rate can go down (eg. murders per 100,000 population), the conviction rate can go up (eg. convictions per 100 murder trials.)
I understand this happened in the UK, and was put down to the fact that people seemed to be more willing to convict in the face the inevitable small remaining doubt if the result wasn't terminal. There are those around here more knowledgeable than me on the subject.

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 09:43 AM

Here's a better idea: sane gun control, education and decent paying jobs...

100,000 (that's right) Americans are shot every year... Do the math... We have way too many guns out there...

(But, Boberdz the NRA says that gun owners prevent crimes and other folks from shooting at you...)

Oh, really??? What a dumb argument... How do you shoot someone if you don't have a gun???

(Details, Boberdz, details...)

B~

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 09:40 AM

"Murder Rates in Canada

The removal of capital punishment from the Canadian Criminal Code in 1976 has not led to an increase in the murder rate in Canada. In fact, Statistics Canada reports that the murder rate has generally been declining since the mid-1970s. In 2009, the national murder rate in Canada was 1.81 homicides per 100,000 population, compared to the mid-1970s when it was around 3.0.

The total number of murders in Canada in 2009 was 610, one fewer than in 2008.

Murder rates in Canada are generally about a third of those in the United States.

Canadian Sentences for Murder

While proponents of the death penalty may cite capital punishment as a deterrent to murder, that has not been the case in Canada. Sentences currently in use in Canada for murder are:

First degree murder - life sentence with no possibility of parole for 25 years
Second-degree murder - life sentence with no possibility of parole for at least ten years
Manslaughter - life sentence with parole eligibility after seven years

from

http://canadaonline.about.com/od/crime/a/abolitioncappun.htm

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 09:36 AM

The idea is that potential criminals, seeing the severity of the consequences in vivid reality, will be more reluctant to execute their crimes.

Yup, & every study that's ever been done has indicated that the death penalty is no deterrent whatsoever.

Except, of course, to the person executed.

Unless he/she is a zombie, werewolf or vampire, I suppose....

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 09:09 AM

I find it interesting that the countries ***without*** capital punishment have much lower murder rates... I mean, we collectively stand behind the sanctity of life or we don't... Capital punishment and sanctity of life are at opposite ends...

So much for the deterrent argument...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 09:01 AM

As Amos said, the deterrent is intended to be upon others; whether it has the desired effect is probably questionable. The fast that the state of Texas executes murderers regularly does not appear to have any significant effect upon the murder rate in Texas, but I suppose one could say that it would be even higher otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 08:45 AM

Death is the end of life as we know it. We will all come to that. Death itself is not a deterrent. I think a far better punishment for that type of crime is to be found in cryogenics. Freeze 'em until we know how to fix that part of the brain. Be lots easier and cheaper. What we discover along the way might also be a sales pitch to make "depopulation" more palatable and even put it on an attractive volunteer basis. Course, ya'd really have to trust the guy or gal with the plug.

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 08:39 AM

I reiterate:

I don't get the 'deterrent effect' death will have upon those executed.

Surely deterrents are used to deter organisms away from unwanted behaviours & in order for this to happen, the organisms must be alive!

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 08:29 AM

The idea is that potential criminals, seeing the severity of the consequences in vivid reality, will be more reluctant to execute their crimes.

A

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 07:35 AM

The only possible effective deterrent would be the certain knowledge of being caught.

Since we haven't reached that level of success in detection, criminals always believe, often with some justification, that they won't be caught.

So the prospect of being hanged doesn't deter the murderer. It never did, and until the clear-up rate reaches 100% it never will.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 07:03 AM

In UK for centuries the Death Penalty pertained for scores of crimes, some quite petty such as small thefts. Never did any of these hangings, some of small children (in public until 1868) deter people from committing crime, as the crime rate remained steady right through. I can't imagine a violent bank robber, for example, putting his gun back in his pocket and saying to himself "I'd better not use this, I might be hanged!" If we reinstated public hangings, we'd be regressing to primitive times, and imitating the gruesome and uncivilised executions carried out today in various parts of the world eg China, Saudi Arabia, and other fundamentalist states. Would that be progress??

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 03:20 AM

Rapparee & gnu,

If you understand what 'deterrent' means, please explain how it will be possible to deter a dead person from further behaviour of any kind?

I await your responses with interest

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jan 12 - 09:58 PM

I certainly do, Happy. I was just trying to offer an explanation for someone ELSE's statement. Seemed obvious to me in the context.

gnightgnu

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Jan 12 - 09:40 PM

Well, no one who's been executed has ever committed another crime.

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 29 Jan 12 - 08:55 PM

gnu

that's nonsense, don't you understand what 'deterrent' means?

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jan 12 - 08:31 PM

I was bored, so I checked back in.

Re, "I don't get the 'deterrent effect' death will have upon those executed."

Well, I think it might mean they cannot kill again. That kinda shit CAN happen. I'm just postulating as to what may have been the intention of that statement. Your mileage may vary.

Don't worry... be happy.

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 29 Jan 12 - 07:58 PM

I don't get the 'deterrent effect' death will have upon those executed.

Surely deterrents are used to deter organisms away from unwanted behaviours & in order for this to happen, the organisms must be alive!

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Jan 12 - 06:32 PM

He's a pastor, too. Now THAT'S scary!

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 29 Jan 12 - 06:20 PM

You're right Greg. I should be looking for a "god bites mammon" story.

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jan 12 - 06:17 PM

Oh my... I'll check back in a thousand posts.

Subject: RE: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Jan 12 - 06:08 PM

So another nutcase Republican fundagelical idiot - in this case Rep. Larry Pittman from North Carolina - Land of Jesse Helms - is spouting rubbish.

A real 'dog bites man' story.

Subject: BS: US2011 : Death for legal activities?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 29 Jan 12 - 05:57 PM

"We need to make the death penalty a real deterrent again by actually carrying it out. Every appeal that can be made should have to be made at one time, not in a serial manner," Pittman wrote in the email. "If murderers (and I would include abortionists, rapists, and kidnappers, as well) are actually executed, it will at least have the deterrent effect upon them. For my money, we should go back to public hangings, which would be more of a deterrent to others, as well."

This is some of you.