BS: lasagna Gardening???

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: Penny S.
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 06:20 AM

I forgot that I put a layer of shredded paper in. Everything watered, of course.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 05:48 PM

What kind of tractor do you have, Bobert?
I have a 50 hp Kubota.
(:-( ))=

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: maeve
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 02:34 PM

A local farmer is composting used grain and hops from a local brewery- but it must be buried or it brings in the rats. I wouldn't expect it to serve as a weed barrier, but what a good layer in the many sheets of compost materials!

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 12:45 PM

Our local brewery makes their brewers grain available to gardeners. Last week the local community gardens had their annual Harvest Fair and several of us made music for them for a few hours. I saw that the brewers grain is heaped in the open where people can shovel it onto their plots. Would that work as a weed barrier? I think it is a fertilizer.

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: maeve
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 09:48 AM

I missed an error, of course:

"I prefer to do this and the next step in conjunction, even limited time means I have to return to the task on another day."

It should read, "I prefer to do this and the next layer or two in conjunction, even when limited time means I have to return to the task on another day. Otherwise the newspaper will blow away."

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: maeve
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 09:44 AM

When one builds a sheet composting area of any size, an understanding of the reasons for each layer and how to maximize chances of success becomes important. A few thoughts in response to concerns/questions about this method; just one of many useful techniques for soil building:

Knock down/ mow the weeds- They will break down to add to nutrients. Persistent perennial weeds need to be dug and removed. Weed seeds are present in the ground whether or not one sees evidence of recent weed growth.

Spread a couple of inches of manure and any mineral supplements as a hot starter to the composting process and water it well before making the newspaper weed barrier. The newspaper does act as a weed barrier; it is also one of the carbon elements in the total layered process. I don't use cardboard here in Maine; the voles love it all too well.

I always water again as I make the layer of newspaper (at least 4 sheets thick) over the area. Without water, especially in dry regions, not much is going to happen in terms of composting and newspapers will fly away on any available breeze. I prefer to do this and the next step in conjunction, even limited time means I have to return to the task on another day.

Proceeding with the layers of compost, green/wet materials and brown/dry (carbon) materials, repeating the pattern of layers as I can obtain additional materials- I'm aiming to follow the general pattern of soil-building layers found in a self-regenerating forest/prairie/desert situation. Choices might include seaweed, grass clippings, coffee grounds, trimmings from vegetable and perennial gardens, non-meat food scraps, fruit tree prunings, animal bedding, spoiled hay or straw, cornstalks, sawdust, ground up leaves, pine needles, wool, hair, ground bark, torn or shredded newspapers torn cardboard, and chipped branches.

Local materials are desirable and may vary widely. They are often free or cheap or available for barter. I have a friend who drops off buckets of coffee grounds from a village store. My blueberries, rhododendrons and persimmon tree have appreciated that! Lime or other amendments can be added as needed to reach a healthy soil balance according to the needs of your planned crop. Layers may be thicker or thinner depending on the need for slowing or speeding up the composting process. Water or not as needed by local conditions and materials.

Like any compost operation, the height of the area will drop as materials are consumed, so the initial sheet compost area needs to be higher than the finished garden will be. For me, best results are achieved when I can give the new garden a season or more to cook down and mix with the help of earthworms. Even so, when making an ornamental garden in the autumn, I might set in spring bulbs. If the garden is for vegetables, I might spread a couple or three inches of finished compost on top for planting some crop seeds right away.

This is a long term approach requiring some initial and ongoing effort. It may or may not be the preferred method for all gardeners or situations.

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 12:04 AM

Heck, if it won't grow weeds, what do you need the newspaper for?

The newspapers are laid down on the assumption that the dirt is full of weed seeds. If your soil couldn't grow weeds, it won't have weed seeds. That's lucky. My yard, neglected by former owners, is still sprouting weeds after 35 years.

Gee, what does your garden area look like? Bare dirt in full sun? It's hard for me to imagine. Since it was wet, was it covered by mosses, etc? I ask as an amateur geologist.

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 11:01 PM

I am an amatuer who really doesn't get into all of this too much except that this year i put an old bath rug down on a bunch of weeds and poured gardening soil on top. My russian sage has been much happier without the weeds. Morgan put cardboard around my big sweetpea and then more soil. They used to be almost smothered with weeds. This year I think we've pulled two, otherwise weed-free; same as in another part of the yard, using the cardboard flats the garden center uses.

Megan, LMAO...I remember an early SNL which showed a segment of the trees.

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 10:43 PM

The actual lasagna garden is going to be about 45 X 24, leeneia, which I think is manageable in terms of layering... I do have a book on it entitled "Lasagna Gardening for Small Spaces" by Patricia Lanza and it seems that given that I don't have much tomplant in that this is the way to go... 45 X 24 ain't all tha big... Back in Va. our garden was 95 X 35...

I donno??? I think I can pull it off... Actually, I have no choice... This dirt won't grow weeds... LOL...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 08:54 PM

Have you ever read the book about lasagne gardening? If not...

It was written by a woman who operates a small hotel somewhere. She wanted her property to be pretty without a lot of maintenance. She must have lived in a region with lots of rain but no violent storms, because she came up with the idea of laying down several sheets of newspaper covered with mulch of one kind or another. The paper kept weeds down, and the mulch broke down, improving the soil.

Suitable perhaps, for a small property where everything has to look nice, and nothing can smell bad.

It seems to me that lasagne gardening would require a lot of careful hand labor. In my garden, for example, almost every sheet of paper would have to be folded to fit the space between one lily and another, or one rosebush and another. (Then a high wind would come along and blow it away, but that's another story.)

If you started from scratch, you could lay out a garden where every plant was one sheet of newspaper away from every other, but then it would look like it was designed by the U.S. Army.

If you have enough rain and the stuff breaks down okay, the method would save work and improve the soil. But getting it started sounds like a hassle.

If your own garden is big enough to take a tractor, I don't think lasagne gardening is the method for you, Bobert.

She never revealed where the hotel was or how much precipitation her region receives. She seemed to assume that her method would work anythere. That is one reason I don't have a lot of faith in her grasp of gardening.

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 01:11 PM

As to newspaper paper (redundant?), your local newspaper office should have tons of it. I've seen un-printed and mis-printed sheaves of it.

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 08:40 AM

Well, not to fear, folks... Ol' hillbilly has been gardening for longer than is willing to admit... I understand Ph, drainage, etc... That's why I constructed two French drains under the area where the garden will be installed (gardener's term) so that no one is going to drown...

Our closest neighbor has 3 horses so we have a supply of manure which I can turn every so ofter with my tractor to keep it composting... Have grass clippings so Rap can keep his... Will have leaves in a couple months... Have large compost pile that I also turn with the tractor once a week... Can buy straw... Lime is cheap...

Need more newspapers...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: open mike
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 03:32 AM

do you have any livestock near by? nothing like manure to enrich soil! we are lucky enough to have a horse stable near that leaves piles of poop by the highway for anyone to scoop up. good to layer it with vegetable matter. as for lasagna...itisgood with eggplant in it!

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: Penny S.
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 03:16 PM

I did a patch this year, using cardboard from boxes in which carpet tiles were delivered. The source I used said it wasn't necessary to dig up weeds first, but I doubted this, so I did, and then buried them. Creeping buttercup survives this. I used compost from my bin, uncomposted kitchen waste, and spent compost from last year's potato bags, topped off with bought topsoil, and planted runner bean and pea seeds. Some of the seeds disappeared soon after germination, due to the gastropod infestation we have all suffered from this year. So I can't really report back properly.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 03:11 PM

An area that's wet, low, needs draining, needed lime before it could farmed? Sounds to me like the last thing it needs is more moisture and more decaying organic material. It could be an acid soil, is what I'm getting at.

If I were you, I'd talk to a soil scientist or even a senior staff member at a local garden center. Otherwise, you could waste time and effort doing the wrong thing.

I used to own the book about lasagne gardening. It sounded good till I realized that the author didn't even reveal what part of the country she was in. I was wondering whether the newspaper, etc, would break down in Missouri's climate, which can get quite dry. I read the entire book and couldn't find anything on how much rain it would take to make her system work. To me that denotes an amateurish approach.

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: gnu
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 02:41 PM

Clippings... I figger there ain't no better fertilizer than what's in what yer growin. Tho I actually have a rake, I dunno where it is.

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 01:40 PM

"I'm gonna ship (I first wrote that with a "t") all my grass clippings to you."

lol

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 11:56 AM

We've got some hibiscus in our backyard in Idaho.

Bobert, tell ya what. I'm gonna ship (I first wrote that with a "t") all my grass clippings to you. Yeah, all my clippings I will send to you, all my clippings, and you'll be true...er, sorry, got carried away. Anyway, I'm over-nighting them collect as soon as I get home. There are seven big bags just fermentin' away right now and this solves both our problems.

Aintcha glad you got friends? Don't you wish you were going to Getaway so you could thank me in person?

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 11:37 AM

Gracious. The things I don't know... I was being facetious; I had not heard the term;I'm not a gardener. Obviously. (I was picturing a lasagna tree.)

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: Megan L
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 11:36 AM

Drat I thought you were taking lessons from those crafty Swiss Spaghetti harvest

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: Janie
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 11:11 AM

what maeve said....

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: maeve
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 10:30 AM

Good plan, Bobert. I find Sheet Composting/Lasagna Gardening an excellent way to make a new garden, and have used it many times over the years...long before it became known by that name. You can fine tune the soil mix and amendments for particular crops. FEDCO Trees in Maine uses a similar procedure to prepare for planting fruit trees. I suggest you build the new garden layers now for planting next spring.

Some useful links:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organic-Gardening/1999-04-01/Lasagna-Gardening.aspx

One popular book

How to make it

http://www.no-dig-vegetablegarden.com/lasagna-gardening.html

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 10:28 AM

No trees, eb... Just lots of grass clippings, ground up leaves, manure, straw and under all of it, newspapers...

Oh, I get it now... It's the newspapers... Not many for this garden... It's only going to be about 45 X 24...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 10:25 AM

How many trees does it take before it can be called a lasagna garden? :>)

Subject: BS: lasagna Gardening???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 09:39 AM

Well, the only spot that get enough sun here at our new-to-us home in North Carolina is across the pond however it was too low so I put a couple French drains under it leading to the pond and must now go with a raised bed... Problem is that all the decent soil is long gone in and around these parts because of decades of farming where the crops grow in lime and fertilizer... The soil itself sucks...

What to do???

Well, I have been considering a lasagna garden... Has anyone even done one??? If so, comments/tips, por favor...

Thanks ahead of time...

B~