BS: Restorative vs Retributive Justice

Subject: RE: BS: Restorative vs Retributive Justice
From: Janie
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 12:38 AM

The opportunities for restorative justice exist mostly on more local or state levels in the USA, and are represented to a limited degree. While I understand the rationale behind mandatory sentencing regulations and laws, they often conflict with and override local and state initiatives for restorative justice. There is no one size fits all, and the stakeholders are many.

At the time I was not familiar with the researched concepts of restorative vs retributive justice, but for several years when I worked in pubic mental health, I was the clinical consultant on a county (grant funded) Community Resource Court - a diversion program for people with mental health issues who ended up with criminal charges against them (usually relatively minor and never felony charges.) The "team" consisted of a judge, assistant prosecutors, probation and parole officers, mental health case managers, ACT team members, designated public defenders, and me. Our county also had a "Drug Resource Court" that was also a diversion program and operated in a similar manner.

Good programs and often effective. Also complex, given all the stake holders. The term "restorative justice" wasn't around then, but that essentially was the principle behind these two courts. Not appropriate for all offenders with mental health or substance abuse issues, and the sorting out of who was appropriate and who wasn't was a complex and imperfect task, but both were good and effective programs.

Subject: RE: BS: Restorative vs Retributive Justice
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 07:13 PM

Very Christian, retribution. Annoying. Much more into restoration... doesn't happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Restorative vs Retributive Justice
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 10:03 AM

Here in the U.S. minor offenders, especially juveniles, are frequently sentenced to some number of hours doing "community service" instead of time in jail. "Community service" usually involves working for a city or county agency, under the supervision of law enforcement, cleaning up highway litter or doing other jobs that are necessary but more or less disagreeable.

Get ready to laugh. I've heard "conservatives" criticize community service on the ground that "kids shouldn't be taught that serving the community is some kind of punishment."

In other words, throw 'em in the pokey with worse criminals. That way [IRONY COMING] everybody benefits!

Subject: RE: BS: Restorative vs Retributive Justice
From: foggers
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 07:22 AM

Let's not forget what Ghandi said about retribution.... "An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind".

Subject: RE: BS: Restorative vs Retributive Justice
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 10:32 PM

Just from a brief look (it is late, and I am tired) it is clear that "restorative" justice requires a LOT more thinking and analyzing and organizing to make it a useful concept and workable system.

It is much easier to just define 'crime' and enact simplistic rules for 'punishing' criminals. Some of that comes directly from the Bible (Leviticus 24:19–21) "an eye for an eye", and depending on the type of crime, victims often demand retribution.

Let me read all the links and think more...........

Subject: RE: BS: Restorative vs Retributive Justice
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 10:09 PM

I do understand the concept of "restorative" justice, Janie... I spent a couple years as a GED teacher in the Richmond (Va.) City Jail and have ahd a long time to contemplate how the community and the offender find common ground...

That's how it works if I understand the concept...

There are two elements that need to be addressed by offenders for the system to be successful: restitution and restoration... Problem is that restoring folks to what they were ain't all that productive for any one... That's where my idea of a private/public partnership comes into play... Don't restore them to ripping and running... Change the paradigm...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Restorative vs Retributive Justice
From: Janie
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 10:04 PM

Here is a table that compares and contrasts the differences between a restorative and retributive approach.

http://www.cscsb.org/restorative_justice/retribution_vs_restoration.html

There is room and need for both, but our criminal justice system currently is very heavily weighted toward retributive justice.

Subject: RE: BS: Restorative vs Retributive Justice
From: Janie
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 09:57 PM

Can't tell from the comments whether gnu and Rap have read/listened to the links or are simply responding to Bobert's first post, which certainly is germaine, but does not address the whole concept. I understand starting a thread is like launching a kid and no one knows where it might go, but hope postings are not limited to thoughts about prison as it is a much bigger topic than that. If that is where it stays, however, so be it.

Subject: RE: BS: Restorative vs Retributive Justice
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 08:43 PM

No, not really, Rap... If it is a true private/public partnership then there is no reason why prisoners can't belong to unions...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Restorative vs Retributive Justice
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 08:21 PM

It's also a threat to unionized labor.

Subject: RE: BS: Restorative vs Retributive Justice
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 08:15 PM

It's better than good, Gn-ze... It would work... Of course, anything that works is a threat to the prison/industrial complex...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Restorative vs Retributive Justice
From: gnu
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 08:12 PM

Sounds good, Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Restorative vs Retributive Justice
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 07:57 PM

Sounds like Auschwitz.

Subject: RE: BS: Restorative vs Retributive Justice
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 07:37 PM

I have long advocated tax benefits for private companies entering into private-public partnerships with the prisons and hiring prisoners while they are incarcerated with companies setting up operations in the prisons... Prisoners would be establishing a relationship with the companies they would be working for after parole... It's win-win-win...

B~

Subject: BS: Restorative vs Retributive Justice
From: Janie
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 05:38 PM

Recently listened to a couple of local Public Radio broadcasts about restorative justice (vs. retributive justice, which is what is institutionalized in our own (USA) justice system.) Have started reading more about it. Strikes me as a concept worth more fully institutionalizing into our justice system.

What is restorative justice? More links at that site.

Links to the two interviews on NCPublic Radio "The State of Things" that called my attention to this concept.

http://wunc.org/tsot/archive/Restorative_Justice.mp3

http://wunc.org/tsot/archive/Meet_Jon_Powell.mp3/view