BS: South ALTA, CA flooding

Subject: RE: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 02:35 PM

Calgary is beginning to dry out. The city core I still closed, until building inspectors have gone over all structures, and electrical transformers have dried out (power was shut off to prevent damage and/or explosions).

Berms and levees move the flood threat downstream to other communities.
In Alberta, Medicine Hat is setting up dykes and sand-bagging with the flood crest moves downstream; the Bow and Elbow Rivers which flooded Calgary join the South Saskatchewan and the system pours through Medicine Hat.

The damage to New Orleans and the Mississippi Delta by the levees and dykes upstream along the Mississippi River is severe. Before the Mississippi was channeled artificially, the flood waters poured over the riverine floodplains, enriching fields and causing much less of a problem in the Delta area.

Subject: RE: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: Charmion
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 08:37 AM

One of the easiest ways of identifying a "First World" city is to check the local flood plan, and look at what as been done over the years to mitigate the threat. In Winnipeg, for example, millions upon millions have been spent to build the Floodway, and the armed forces have a well-used mobilization plan for flood-relief duties. Here in Ottawa, berms along the banks of the Rideau River have almost eliminated the flood threat in most neighbourhoods, and city crews dynamite the ice in late winter to prevent flooding from ice jams. City zoning bans new housing developments in known floodplains where mitigation measures have yet to be implemented, such as a much-debated area on the Carp River in our west end.

Meanwhile, in aboriginal communities along the shore of James Bay, annual flooding caused by ice jams just like what we don't get in Ottawa displaces hundreds of families for months at a time, and fouls the water supply for those few who can stay in their homes. And in India this week, floods have killed hundreds f people and displaced tens of thousands ...

Subject: RE: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 01:40 PM

"Should everyone move to the snowy (but arid) and stable Canadian Shield?" No! It is a horrible place to live. Nobody should even consider it. Everyone stay where they are. Except for tourists with $$$. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 01:38 PM

My aunt and uncle live in downtown Calgary a posh high-rise very near the Elbow River and have evacuated and are staying with my cousin up on the hill overlooking the city for now. Their basement (parking and storage) is at risk in that building. They don't know the outcome yet.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 11:56 AM

The floods in southern Alberta are the worst since records were kept.
People live where it is convenient- both have been centers for over 100 years. Both have large business cores with business and residential high rises.

Cities as large as Calgary (1.2 million metro) or Edmonton (1.1 metro) are not movable.

California and other west coast cities are subject to earthquakes. Florida to Texas suffers from hurricanes, the Midwest has tornados (as well as floods).

Should everyone move to the snowy (but arid) and stable Canadian Shield? Only a few trappers and miners can make a living there.

This "shouldn't have done it" talk is nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 11:12 PM

Bill D... I hear ya. We had a big flap over calls to require owners of properties in flood prone areas to "disclose" such info in selling their property. They told the gubmint to either buy them out at what theor properties should be sold for or remove the upstream dam which they say causes the flooding by altering the natural water tables.

There ya go. It's far more complicated than it looks on the surface at times.

GUEST..........

Subject: RE: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 11:05 PM

gnu.. I respect your duties & obligations. I have no quarrel with those who, by chance, end up needing to live in certain places. I simply wonder if those who built there originally knew it was 'a tsunami zone'.

Awhile back, one small town in the American mid-west (Iowa?- not sure) realized they they were likely to be flooded every few years. They moved the entire town! I realize that Edmonton can't do this...but they and others can zone the town so that private homes are NOT built in serious flood areas, and restrict the chancy locations to the type of land use you refer to...or even just parks. Cities which just realized the problem 'could' restrict NEW building and begin gradual relocation as $$$ permit. They could at least officially recognize the situation.
Right now people in New York & New Jersey are rebuilding where Sandy just wiped them out. It might not happen again for 40 years.. or it might in 3 years, given climate change.
Yes... I am aware that some people MUST take chances... and some people choose to take chances for the 'privilege' of living on the edge and daring Nature.... I just wish the odds were, by law, carefully spelled out. This would not do much good in tornado country, but 20 year flood plains are a different story, as are landslide and fire areas, as in California.

This sounds all-too-critical, given that people are suffering... but that IS my concern. *I* waded out of my house in New Orleans in 3 feet of water when I was 9 years old, after a levee failed. Today that street is still teeming with new homes. I know that we cannot keep everyone totally safe....people must live somewhere, but way too little is done to analyze and define acceptable risks. Real estate speculators lobby legislatures for exceptions to zoning restrictions...and many of the results make headlines.

I do hope this current situation eases soon.

Subject: RE: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 10:49 PM

Larry, thank you for the heads-up about the N Sask. It did it about 30 years back. I have a daughter living there.

#########################

I posted to your Insult thread and said "Fuck you." I am sorry. I forgot to mention the horse you rode in on.

Many thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 09:34 PM

Edmonton? Now we are talkin a FAR larger area?

Subject: RE: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 09:27 PM

And now I hear that my old home town, Edmonton, has also been put on flood watch.

Subject: RE: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 09:22 PM

Oh, my, what a huge mess. I feel for the people affected by the floods. Those photos were stunning.

Subject: RE: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 04:43 PM

The downtown core is being evacuated. The high rises will survive, but business is stopped, and condo owners need boats at street level.

All schools are closed. Major freeways are flooded in places.

Many people on high ground also are having problems. Mudslides and water running off the high ground has cut roads and is cutting gas lines. Power has been lost in some areas.

Our Global TV station has a helicopter in the air, and the videos of the flooding is amazing. Many houses flooded to the rooftops.

The rivers are supposed to crest by tomorrow morning.

Subject: RE: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 03:57 PM

Bill D... most heavy duty buildings will sustain little damage due to the design safety factors that would normally be considered. Homes... not so much.

I am located in a tsunami zone. I will be getting a piece of land on higher ground and renting out my present location when circumstances permit. Why I am here is simply a matter of family duties.

Subject: RE: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 03:17 PM

WHY will people build important structures on a known floodplain? I hope the damage is minimal, but Nature will do as it pleases.

Same thoughts for those who build in Colorado and California wildfire areas.

Subject: RE: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 01:53 PM

Calgary, like many cities, grew from a nucleus near the rivers, hence older parts of the town are on the floodplain. This includes part of the business district, and some of the high-rise condos.

Some very expensive real estate has been flooded, including very expensive housing (median house price in Calgary is $450,000; many of the houses along the Elbow River and some other low-lying developments have homes worth well over $1,000,000.

The insurance costs will run into the billions.

Subject: RE: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 01:33 PM

Breakfast with the Penguins, scheduled for Saturday, has been cancelled.

Subject: RE: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 01:30 PM

So far, the Calgary Zoo on St. George's Island is OK. Closed because access bridges are closed.

The gnus have wet feet, but otherwise your relatives are safe.

"The Courthouse remains a contingency plan" (tigers, lions and snow leopards only). Animals are being moved to safe areas on the island.

Subject: BS: South ALTA, CA flooding
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 07:08 AM

Calgary zoo animals moved to courthouse jail cells?

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/06/20/pictures-and-videos-of-massive-flooding-in-canmore-and-southern-alberta/