Can I produce Mance Lipscomb albums?

Subject: RE: Can I produce Mance Lipscomb albums?
From: _gargoyle
Date: 14 Nov 99 - 12:33 AM

The market will not be GREAT - the demand is low.

In its simplist form:
Change the recording to WAV
Burn a disk at night
Burn a disk in the morning
Post through newsgroups and mags
Use a different P.O. Box each month
Charge a basic 10.00 U.S. Split after 8 months....return for 2 months after a 2 month break...

By the end of a year your customer base probably will have been saturated. You will have a couple hundred cash for your troubles. The good news is....the music is now in the hands of those that appreciate it.

On the other hand...(recommended) redigitize to MP3 format and distribute for gratis on the underground network.

Subject: RE: Can I produce Mance Lipscomb albums?
From: ddw
Date: 12 Nov 99 - 01:07 AM

garg...

Told you, man, I'm a babe in the woods here....

What's a "front"?

david

Subject: RE: Can I produce Mance Lipscomb albums?
From: _gargoyle
Date: 12 Nov 99 - 12:52 AM

Do It!!!

There are three dozen different avenues you can market under and only three of those are "legit."

If you worry about the legalities....the world will never share in your find.... the recordings will die with you.

Keep the cost/overhead low.... use a "front" and no-one will begrudge you a payment for your troubles.

Fox KNOWS that their days numbered as the world revolves/evolves to a different format than 78/45/33....that is why they are fighting so hard in a final death-struggle-gurgle.....for every high-profile site they shut down... a score more of free ftp sites spring up....the battle is lost.

Subject: RE: Can I produce Mance Lipscomb albums?
From: ddw
Date: 11 Nov 99 - 12:18 AM

Once again I hang my dumbness out for all to see....

I've read the threads about MC being hassled, but didn't remember the name of the hasslers....

Anyway, thanx guys for the encouragement. I know it would be a monumental pain to get it done, but Mance was so great live and I don't know of any other tapes anywhere. It'll be my long-term project — as soon as I can get past some of the short-term ones my fair damsel keeps pushing me to do.....

david

Subject: RE: Can I produce Mance Lipscomb albums?
From: John Wood
Date: 10 Nov 99 - 06:41 PM

ddw you don't have to have any bad conscience about making money!
If you do make any it won't be without alot of work,and besides isn't that what record companys do all the time?
Only often they don't pay as much as they should do.

The Harry Fox thing that Roger mentioned is a bit of a sore point with Mudcatters!
He's threatening the Mudcat Cafe with legal action for using``copyright´´material.

Greetings John.
Don't forget my copy(*BG*)

Subject: RE: Can I produce Mance Lipscomb albums?
From: ddw
Date: 10 Nov 99 - 06:11 PM

Thanx again, everybody. I think doing the royalty thing would sooth any conscience I have about making money (if I do) on another artist's efforts, so I think I'll start poking around for who owns the copyrights.

RiB — who or what is the Harry Fox Agency? Are they in the business of doing this kind of thing? How would I contact them? Are they in the U.S.? Baltimore?

david

Subject: RE: Can I produce Mance Lipscomb albums?
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 10 Nov 99 - 03:58 PM

David,

I strongly suggest you contact the Harry Fox Agency. I am sure they can find someone to collect royalties.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Can I produce Mance Lipscomb albums?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 10 Nov 99 - 11:39 AM

I agree 100% with Eez. It's probably difficult to find where they go though, often has to be done on a song by song basis. On the other hand, long ago I realised that I operated on a very "selective" morality, ie: I know MY motives are pure so the lawyers and copyrite police can go jump in a lake.
Years ago I flunkied for Mike Seeger while he was playing the Mariposa Festival in Toronto. He noticed some (normal looking) bluegrass tapes in my car. "Those Stanley Bros. albums are bootlegs, ya know", he said. "You should send Ralph Stanley a royalty". I figured it out at about 50 cents each (way too high!) and sent off about 3 dollars. Actually got a thank you note from Ralph's wife. Seems futile, but made me feel good.
Rick

Subject: RE: Can I produce Mance Lipscomb albums?
From: Easy Rider
Date: 10 Nov 99 - 10:23 AM

I don't think there is an ethics issue here, as long as you pay royalties to the owners of the publishing rights or the artist's heirs. You, after all, are not the one who might have cheated the musician out of his songs. You deserve to be paid for your efforts and risks in bringing this music to market.

You should STILL send me a review copy, though.

Subject: RE: Can I produce Mance Lipscomb albums?
From: ddw
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 09:31 PM

Thanks one and all. The consensus seems to be largely what I expected on the legal/royalties thing. Am I to take the absence of any comment on the ethics of possibly profiting from an artist's work as a tacit OK? I am aware of the various "underground" or "basement tapes" things that are put out and I've always wondered about them. Are they produced with the artists' blessings and do the artists get a cut?

By now I'm sure you've all figured out that I'm a real babe in the woods in the recording world, so I appreciate any help I can get here.

Thanx everybody,

david

Subject: RE: Can I produce Mance Lipscomb albums?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 01:14 PM

Funny line Eez. Yeah, I want a review copy too!

David, if you haven't already read it, I strongly suggest you find a copy of "I'd Rather Be the Devil" by Stephen Calt. It's a biography of Skip James, and is more illuminating about the "bluesmen collecters" themselves than it's intended subject. Vitually all the re-discovered singers were talked into signing various recording and publishing contracts - most pseudo-legal at best. Some like James, casually signed agreements with several small(usually one or two man) organisations.
Calt is like a sledgehammer in his denunciation of people like Nick Perls, Pete Kuykendall, John Fahey, and Stefan Grossman - painting them as greedy opportunists, who convinced these blues singers that fame awaited them (if they had the right kind of management) when in actual fact the acoustic blues audience was an extremely tiny piece of the pie. Well, it's a decent sized piece of the pie today, and my guess is that even if you got permission from Arhoolie Records, AND Mance's heirs, you'd still find among your junk mail, lawyers letters threatening you with agreements that Mance signed in 1959.
Interesting point though: I wonder just how much (if anything) the Lipscomb family does make from all those recordings and videos. Sandy can certainly tell you how much Frank Proffit's family benefitted from "Tom Dooley".

Rick

Subject: RE: Can I produce Mance Lipscomb albums?
From: Easy Rider
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 08:58 AM

I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me it has something to do with publishing and performance rights. If Mance recorded these songs, then they have been published, and you must pay royalties to the publisher (the owner of the copyright), probably his estate or his heirs, unless, like many other musicians, he was cheated out of the publishing rights by the record producer.

It would take some research, to find out who owns the copyright on those songs, but you should do it before selling a CD.

Of course, you should first make ME a tape copy of your recordings, so I can review them and let you know if it is all worthwhile!

Thanx, EZR

Subject: RE: Can I produce Mance Lipscomb albums?
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 08:44 AM

I can certainly see the importance of your taking legal advice on this one, however, as a fan of Mance Lipscomb I'd love to hear the recordings. It's a great shame when 'legal considerations' (money) get in the way of the simple pleasures of hearing a great artist sing and play.

Brian

Subject: RE: Can I produce Mance Lipscomb albums?
From: John Wood
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 08:19 AM

Definately DON'T do it without getting permission from heirs.
They might well be flattered that you'd take the trouble,but there is perhaps a royalty issue.
I'm not trying to dampen your idea......it's great that artists are``preserved´´on ``record´´,but ASK first,and get permission in writing!

Greetings John.

Subject: RE: Can I produce Mance Lipscomb albums?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 01:07 AM

I wouldn't do it without getting permission from his "heirs and assigns" (that is, his surviving family). If you decide to pursue the idea farther, I'd advise you to get real legal advice. But then, I'm chicken!

Sandy

Subject: Can I produce Mance Lipscomb albums?
From: ddw
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 01:00 AM

I have a dilemma and would love to hear the opinions/comments of fellow Mudcatters on it. The problem is this:
I have about three hours of Mance Lipscomb recorded in live performance in 1966. Mance had given his permission for me to tape him but — for reasons I won't go into here — he wasn't doing any commercial recording at the time.
I love these tapes — he was definitely feeding on the audience and the sound is much sharper on most of the songs than on the versions he later recorded in studios — and I think there would be a lot of people who could get just as much enjoyment out of them. For years I've toyed with the idea of getting them transferred to CDs and put them on the market, but I have a couple of questions:
1. Is it ethical for me to do it? and
2. Would there be legal problems from the labels he later recorded for or from his estate?

I know a lot of Mudcatters have experience in the recording field and I'd love to hear what they think — especially from Art T, Sandy P and Rick F — but also from anyone else who would care to comment.

thanx

david