Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?

Subject: RE: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: Susan A-R
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 08:07 PM

People go to concerts for a lot of reasons, and I'm no different. I like songs because of the stories they tell, so I really listen, and hate it when the story's lame, or I can't understand the words, whether it's new or old. I heard a performer I love, whose writing I enjoy a lot, in two concerts, about a year and a half apart, and the material was almost all the same. I was a bit offended. Didn't he realize that the audience would probably be simillar? Then I heard him a few years later, and he did a few old things, really good ones, and a lot of new material. Ah, I was happy.

Of course it also helps if the performer knows how to talk with the audience, get us engaged, and gets us to sing along.

Subject: RE: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 07:17 PM

Horses for courses.

If it's an audience that doesn't have much to do with folk music, they probably want mostly songs they might have come across, helps them feel at home and not excluded. "Give us the Black Velvet Band"

If it's an audience of folkies they're not so likely to want to hear yet another version of some old standard."Not the Black Velvet Band again..."

If it's a performer who's known for some special song, and the audience haven't heard him or her recently singing it, that's what they want to hear.

Or it might be someone known for writing topical stuff, and the audience want to hear whatt they might have done with the latest scandal in the papers.

As I said, horses for courses.

Subject: RE: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: Mudjack
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 05:13 PM

A Mixed Bag is where I try to take my music. Most audiences like to hear new songs but also like to hear one they know so they can sing along. A question to what is new might have to come under the category of "older song but newer audience". Tony Bennet can still do Heart in San Francisco because he still likes doing it. If a performer does a song he/she really does'nt like, then I'm convinced the song will not go over. It has to have that "feel good" vibes or the listeners will tend to turn you off. M.Mario hit on "auto pilot" and I compare that expression as doing a song even when your'e tired of it. Point being if you still enjoy the song when performing it, it should be enjoyed by your audience.
Mudjack

Subject: RE: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: sophocleese
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 10:55 AM

If I'm seeing a band or performer that I haven't heard before then I'm expecting to hear unfamiliar material and I usually enjoy it. However when I go to hear someone I've heard before I like a mix. I like to hear the way THAT performer does THAT song and I want to hear it again.

When I'm performing I'd ideally like to do all new songs everytime but with time constraints that ain't possible and I prefer to do songs well. Now that I'm singing with a partner who's even pickier than I am, and we have to figure out arrangements, I'm even slower getting new songs worked up. But I like to think we sound quite good.

Subject: RE: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 09:36 AM

As as general rule, I prefer a mixture of old and new and I do like to hear a few songs that are familiar to me but I agree that quality is more important and there have contless songs and tunes that are new to me (even though some of them may have been around for years) that I loved from the first time I have heard them.

I think with new material, my biggest dislke has been a particular breed of singer/ song writer /guitar player that I have encountered many times over the years in folk clubs. I don't know what it is about them but I have known many of them just seem to come up with a varient of the same old song to slit your wrists by dirge. And then follow it with another...

Jon

Jon

Subject: RE: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: dwditty
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 09:17 AM

I usually "connect" to a song or not within the first few bars. Something inside just clicks when it's right for me. This phenomenon crosses all musical categories as I get the same feeling with all types of music - church, blues, classical, folk, rock, gospel, bluegrass... Some songs just seem to have that hook. When that song is new to me, it is paticularly enjoyable - even making the hairs stand up on the back of my neck. After some number of listens, I seem to get used to the song. I still love it, but it's more like putting on a comfortable pair of old shoes. The chance of a live performance of all new material simultaneously connecting to the entire audience is just not realistic. In that light, I think most audiences prefer songs that they know sprinkled with some new material.

Subject: RE: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: MMario
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 11:09 AM

My opinion; but if you've gotten to the point where you sing a song on "autopilot" then it should be dropped from your repetoire for a bit. Note, I am not saying you shouldn't know the song inside out, upside down and backwards...just not sing it on "auto-pilot".

Subject: RE: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: Midchuck
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 10:16 AM

I was reminded of something I read elsewhere on the net, about two people who were in Vegas and were in a club where Tony Bennet was performing. He was singing "I Left My Heart in San Francisco," very competently, as usual, and one guy says, "How can he stand to sing that over and over, year after year - and still do it well?"

The other guy said: "He's a plumber. He's putting in a new fawcet."

I'm afraid that's the attitude you have to take if you want to make a living performing music, unless you happen to be a genius. Which is why so many people keep their day jobs.

Subject: RE: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: GeorgeH
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 08:43 AM

I'm entirely with Amos here; it's HOW it's sung far more than what's sung. If someone starts "The wild rover" then I'll decide it's time to go to the loo or the bar, 'cause almost invariably that song's sung "on auto-pilot". Then again, a few months Tommas Lynch sung it in our local club - slightly slower than usual, with a few different twists to the tune, but above all with meaning - and I was transfixed.

Or to take another example. In our local "major" venue (Corn Exchange, Cambridge, UK - this venue should carry a sound quality warning) we couldn't resist a "dream" pairing of Dick Gaughan playing support to June Tabor (with band). For Dick the sound was dire; there was little enjoyment to be had in his spot (and before that event I couldn't have dreamed of ever writing that about a Dick Gaughan concert), and certainly this was made much worse by the fact that almost all of the repetoire he performed was unfamiliar to most of the audience. Sound was only slightly better for June and band, but it's easier for a band to "work" a large venue and there was a good response to a concert which didn't have a very high familiarity count. Then, as an encore, they performed Bill Caddick's "The writing of Tiparary". It's quite possible no-one in that audience had ever heard that song before (and certainly not that version of it, as I believe this was its first performance). And it's not an easy song; it doesn't have a "familiar" feel (until the eventual bit of "Tipparary" itself); there's a lot of narritive in it, and it has two very contrasting "parts" to the tune. But it was stunning; it had the audience on the edge of their seats (and me in tears for the second half of it, with its intensity of impending doom). Without doubt the high-spot of the evening, and one of those performance moments which lives on in the memory. [This version was with her regular band of Huw Warren and Mark Emmerson, with the addition of Andy Cutting. Her recorded version of the song - with the Modern Jazz orchestra - while excellent does not have the same intensity. IMO!]

G.

Subject: RE: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: Mbo
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 08:27 AM

I'm a HUGE advocate of new music. But I find that people only want to hear what they know. When Christmas time rolls around, I like sing carol like Jesus,Jesus Rest Your Head, The Boar's Head Carol, Past 3'o Clock, Rocking, Gesu Bambino, Une Flambeau Jeanette, Isabel, but no one wants to hear them. If you want to play the timeworn Jingle Bells and Deck The Halls, you'll be loved for life. I always wonder why at concerts (especially rock concerts) why there is always more old music than new. I love hearing new music for the first time. When I listen to that for a little while, I'm like, "Ok, what else do you have?" I wish I could hear new music ALL the time. So, almost like the Banjo Bonnie, I'm a Little Neophile. Sure that stuff you know is fun to sing, but I want to learn and gain more knowledge. I've been putting off re-reading "Les Miserables" by Victor Hugo because my university library has tons of books about Irish & Scottish folklore and history, that I've barely made a dent in. I come seeking knowledge. BTW, I only heard The Fields of Athenry once, and forget how it goes!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 03:29 AM

If I just wanted to hear the same songs over and over, I'd buy the CD and not bother to support live concerts.

A good mix is something like 4 familiar songs to 1 new one. If everyone only did their old familiar material, new songs would never get heard.. Remember, The Fields of Athenry was new once, what would have happened if that had never been done for the first time?

LTS

Any comments about 'the world would be a better place' will be given the treatment it deserves......

Subject: RE: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 11:56 PM

and if you can't give them a familar song, give them a familar 'feeling'....many new songs..pop/rock/country, etc. seem to have a sameness...not many 'topics', so it is not necessary to pay close attention to get the point...(you seldom see long learned discussions about the deeper meaning of the latest rock hit)...

I know, some old ballads are similar, too...but the songs I like are the ones about 'life'....love, drink, murder, farm animals, fiddles, food, gods, demons, wars,....etc..and it takes awhile for those to become familar...and the phrase 'folk music' was sort of coined to describe those songs the 'folk' sang with and about themselves...

much of the 'newer' music seems to be 'familar' because the theme of "oh, baby, I want you" is already well known...

(what, ME opinionated?)

Subject: RE: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 09:05 PM

Maybe familiar vs. unfamiliar isn't the question, although I do think it's important for a performer to include a good number of familiar songs. Some songs - long ballads, particularly - demand a lot of attention from an audience. If you are going to perform a complex song for an audience, you have to work hard first to gain their attention - and then not abuse their attention, once you've got it. It's hard work for an audience to follow a complicated song. Be sure to give them a break with a no-brainer afterwards.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: Les B
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 08:50 PM

I thought those conflicting viewpoints in the other thread were interesting, too, and it got me to thinking about my group's repertoire. I would guess we do about ten percent new and the rest old or known songs. We do, however, try to vary the set by contrasting tempos, changing keys (major to minor, etc), rotating through three lead vocalists, and trying to vary the lead instumentation. If it seems appropriate we cluster several types of songs together, train songs, cowboy songs, civil war tunes, etc. Or, coversely, try to jump from old to new. Curiosity and unexpectedness have some validity. It's always a challenge and one is never sure the answers are correct.

Subject: RE: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: Amos
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 08:34 PM

Old or new, the song wins the listener that communicates to him/her. Familiarity and long affection help this happen, but so does the power of the well made song. I cannot forget the first time I heard __________ (fill in the blank). It stuck because it spoke to you, no? Wherefore did it become so familiar, otherwise?

The early Baez album, or the first listening of Abbey Road are probably examples for many people of "Our" generation; -- of course youth always helps!! But for some reason I never heard Wild Mountain Thyme until late in life, and the tune has never escaped my mind since I first heard it. But if someone else is paying you, you have to gear up to what they really want and need.

A

Subject: RE: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: Midchuck
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 07:42 PM

As a semi-pro singer with the accent on the "semi" - i.e. with a full time day job and performing for fun first and money second, I find that this is one of the dangers I face. I like the new songs that I'm still excited about best. Audiences like the ones they've heard before best. I have to keep reminding myself of this. If I'm getting paid, I have to think about their enjoyment first, and my own second. It's hard, when you start playing "out" at a relatively advanced age.

The exception is funny songs. If the audience is listening, or can be persuaded to listen, those go over well right away.

Subject: RE: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: Willie-O
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 07:41 PM

I read the same books over and over too, at least I used to.

But with music, for me nothing beats the experience of hearing a really great song for the first time--much preferably live--and knowing that one's a keeper. I'm willing to sit through a fair amount of "okay" material for that.

A set of all dead familiar material from a performer is o.k. if it's really good material, I guess, but it's just plain lazy.

I like a mix, because in every audience there are people like Marion and people like me. And we all paid to get in.

Bill C

Subject: Familiar song or unfamiliar songs?
From: Marion
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 06:53 PM

This is a follow-up to the "When should you charge for performing?" thread.

Someone mentioned that it was valuable to have a unique repertoire, and someone else mentioned that audiences enjoy songs that they know more than songs that they don't. I thought this question was worth a thread of its own.

When I'm listening to a performance, I virtually always prefer hearing the songs that I know already and can sing along to (in my head if not out loud). If the song is good, then it can't be done too often by definition.

It's the same in other areas besides music too - I've read my favourite novels dozens of times each, and I prefer liturgical churches to non-liturgical; I figure that if anything is worth doing once, it's worth doing over and over again.

And while new songs might turn out to become old favourites, I find that they're not as much fun the first time round. Maybe it's because it's a kind of "work" to really listen to a song I haven't heard before, and I don't go to concerts to have to work.

Agree? Disagree?

Marion