BS: Is Israel Anti-Semitic?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Israel Anti-Semitic?
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 09:57 PM

The title of this thread is deliberately chosen to provoke

Bullshit.

1. The title of this thread AS ORIGINALLY POSTED was quote: "Is Israel's Government Anti-Semitic" [emphasis mine]. Check out the first posting.

Someone (Joey, perhaps?) changed that.

In addition, I think it's fair to say that this attempt to label Israel as anti-Semitic

2. See #1, above.

So, there's no doubt that Netanyahu is despicable.

And he's prostituting himself, and the government of the state of Israel by getting into bed with anti-semites and promoting antisemitism for political advantage. If THAT isn't being antisemitic, then nothing is.


by the way, Joe, when are you going to be a mensch and delete your final cowardly unsubstantiated defamatory screed from the Spanish Civil War thread?

---

This thread is calculated only to bait some members and continue old running battles. It's summer, for most of you. Go outside and play.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Israel Anti-Semitic?
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 09:42 PM

Acts of State may be debatable, controversial, or even wrong:

Eamon de Valera pays condolence call on German legation

The title of this thread is deliberately chosen to provoke. The anti-Israel circle-jerks continue to beat on their favorite go-topic. Let's see if they can generate more light than heat.

Or any light whatsoever.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Israel Anti-Semitic?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 09:40 PM

In addition, I think it's fair to say that this attempt to label Israel as anti-Semitic, serves to cheapen the seriousness of the offense of anti-Semitism that has plagued our world for two millennia. Anti-Semitism is nothing to joke about.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Israel Anti-Semitic?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 09:26 PM

Oy.

It's clear that the Orban regime in Hungary has an anti-refugee and anti-immigrant philosophy. The poster campaign reflects those sentiments, that's clear. And certainly, the Orban regime's attitude toward refugees and immigrants may well stem from the same attitudes that generated Hungary's anti-Semitic history.

The Orban poster campaign has a weird emphasis on Soros, a wealthy Jew - and there's a good chance Orban is expressing the anti-Semitism of his regime in the poster campaign. And certainly, some of the anti-Soros graffiti added to the posters is probably anti-Semitic.

As for Netanyahu, that's another matter. Since January of this year, the United States has had a President elected by a minority. Trump got 3 MILLION votes fewer than Clinton did, and it's a mess. Trump is doing all sorts of dirty tricks to impose the will of his minority upon the rest of us. Now, Israel has been ruled by a minority for years and years, and Netanyahu and his Likud predecessors have been paying their dirty tricks on the Israeli and Palestinian peoples for years. Forming alliances with right-wing interests all over the earth, is just one of Netanyahu's dirty tricks.

So, there's no doubt that Netanyahu is despicable. But to say that the Prime Minister of Israel is anti-Semitic? That's just verbal legerdemain that muddies the truth of the seriousness of the anti-refugee and anti-immigrant philosophies of both Orban and Netanyahu.

But of course, if it makes sense to say that Netanyahu is anti-Semitic and even that Israel itself is anti-Semitic, then certainly it must be anti-Semitic to liken Israel to Nazi Germany. The guy who made that comparison, offered to make a charitable donation to Opus Dei if proof could be presented that he had made anti-Semitic statements. Opus Dei is anti-Semitic in many aspects itself, so donating to Opus Dei would be just another act of anti-Semitism. It would be far more appropriate for the donation to be made to the Jewish anti-defamation league.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Is Israel Anti-Semitic?
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 09:18 PM

Pay no attention to the Bubo behind the curtain, lads. Different post, same shit. Ignore the putz & perhaps he'll shrivel up.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Israel Anti-Semitic?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 08:45 PM

I'm not falling for any of that crap, Jim. Asking him for his list of countries that DON'T regard the settlements as illegal was both rhetorical and taking the piss. One thing's for sure. He won't be coming up with that list: there is no bloody list.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Israel Anti-Semitic?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 08:29 PM

"To conclude more, would be silly."
Oh dear - and I'm the "Jew hater"
The stench of hypocrisy is now overwhelming
This, simply put, is what happened
"Official posters denouncing Mr Soros have been described by Hungary's main Jewish organisation as antisemitic. Yossi Amrani, Israel's ambassador in Budapest, urged Viktor Orban, the prime minister, to remove them.
"BEYOND POLITICAL CRITICISM OF A CERTAIN PERSON, THE CAMPAIGN NOT ONLY EVOKES SAD MEMORIES BUT ALSO SOWS HATRED AND FEAR," MR AMRANI SAID IN A STATEMENT..
His bosses in Israel initially endorsed the call, but later issued a clarification, saying that the Hungarian-born financier threatened democracy by funding charities critical of Mr Netanyahu."
Simply put, the security of tenure of the Lekud Party outweighs the importance of antisemitism in a world where all forms of racism and bigotry, including that against Jews, have taken a sharp upturn. Not differences of opinion Joe - open support for an antisemitic poster put up by a Party with historical links to the Nazis
Joe leaps to support this incredible behaviour, Bobad immediately described all criticism of of Israel as "Jew Baiting", once more refuses to comment on this blatant appeasement of antisemitism and tries to turn the discussion into a defence of the illegal settlements
Please don't fall for that crap Steve - even the UN and the United States have declared the settlements illegal - it's a done deal.   
Forget my request Joe - I don't have a long enough spoon to dine with you
BEFORE NETANYAHU'S CHANGE-OF-MIND - JERUSALEM POST
Jim Carroll
The full version of events from last week's Times
The Times Tuesday, July 11th
ISRAEL BACKS HUNGARY'S 'ANTISEMITIC' POSTER AGAINST SOROS AFTER U-TURN
ISRAEL
Gregg Carlstrom Tel Aviv
Binyamin Netanyahu has overruled his ambassador and backed the right-wing Hungarian government's campaign against the Jewish billionaire George Soros.
Official posters denouncing Mr Soros have been described by Hungary's main Jewish organisation as antisemitic. Yossi Amrani, Israel's ambassador in Budapest, urged Viktor Orban, the prime minister, to remove them.
"Beyond political criticism of a certain person, the campaign not only evokes sad memories but al¬so sows hatred and fear," Mr Amrani said in a statement.
His bosses in Israel initially endorsed the call, but later issued a clarification, saying that the Hungarian-born financier threatened democracy by funding charities critical of Mr Netanyahu.
Mr Orban's government has repeatedly attacked Mr Soros and is trying to close down a liberal university that he set up and funded. It has accused him of trying to flood Europe with immigrants.
It has paid for billboards across the country denouncing Mr Soros as a threat to national security. "Let's not allow Soros to have the last laugh," reads one, next to a photo of the smiling banker. The head of Hungary's Jewish community said that the billboards were antisemitic, while Human
Rights Watch compared them to Nazi propaganda, which often featured "the laughing Jew".
Mr Orban wrote a letter to Jewish leaders last week saying: "My duty is to defend our homeland and citizens."
Israel is normally quick to condemn antisemitism, but this time the government distanced itself from the ambassador's comments. "In no way was the statement meant to delegitimise criticism of George Soros, who continuously undermines Israel's democratically elected govern¬ments by funding organisations that defame the Jewish state," Emmanuel Nachson, a spokesman for the foreign ministry, said.
Mr Netanyahu has not appointed a foreign minister and holds the post himself. He is scheduled to meet Mr Orban in Hungary next week.
Israel and Hungary have both passed legislation that seeks to limit the influence of liberal charities such as those Mr Soros funds.
Last month Mr Orban praised Miklos Horthy, a Second World War-era Hungarian leader, as an "exceptional statesman". Admiral Horthy was a Nazi ally who passed a series of anti-Jewish laws.
Again, Mr Amrani protested, this time on Hungarian television, and several leading Israeli politicians urged Mr Netanyahu to cancel his visit. But the foreign ministry said it was satisfied with Hungary's clarification—that Mr Orban was only praising the "positive periods" in his predecessor's history, not the "negative periods".
Israel used to follow local Jewish communities in deciding whether to meet parties with dubious pasts. It kept its distance from the National Front in France because Jewish leaders shunned the group.
But Mr Netanyahu and his government have sought to build ties with far-right factions across Europe, viewing them as useful diplomatic allies.
Last year, the head of Austria's Freedom Party spent a week in Israel on an official visit. The Israeli foreign ministry officially boycotts the party, which was founded in 1956 by former Nazis.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Israel Anti-Semitic?
From: bobad
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 07:59 PM

Why don't you tell us exactly when and through what process did Judea and Samaria become "Palestinian" territory.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Israel Anti-Semitic?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 07:23 PM

Well you do like your long lists, boobs. I asked you in another thread for your list of all those countries you claimed had disapproved of BDS. Keith butted in and gave us a list of two and a half countries. So, as you like lists (remember how you loved to give us lists of the countries who'd adopted your "wider definition" of antisemitism?), please provide us with a list of all those countries who DON'T regard the settlements as illegal. It shouldn't take you long.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Israel Anti-Semitic?
From: bobad
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 06:55 PM

There are no illegal settlements - unless of course one assumes that Jews should not own property or build in those areas because they are Jews. Every current Jewish "settlement" is on land owned by Jews before 1948 or purchased after 1967. Settlements that tried to set up on land that was not Jewish owned have been dismantled. We continue to hear the term "illegal", but "legal and illegal" has to be more that political desires and interests. It has to refer to law. And, frankly, law established during the illegal Jordanian occupation of the area in which Jewish property was confiscated and retitled, and current PA regulations that ban sales or ownership of property by Jews is not valid.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Israel Anti-Semitic?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 06:54 PM

"To conclude more would be silly."

Well, Joe, you've blotted your copybook already on this topic and your post confirms that you really don't know very much at all about it. Of course, that doesn't mean you aren't entitled to your view. But that's my view of you. Incidentally, following that troll post from bobad, are you going to tell us once again that he may have a point?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Israel Anti-Semitic?
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 06:52 PM

That Netanayahu and Orban have political differences with Soros.To conclude more, would be silly.

Silly? Thought your name was Joe, not Pollyanna. Do you also conclude that the Trump campaign's meetings with Russia were harmless, legal & just plain fun?

Doesn't sound like you actually read the article as requested.

But of course, "you have a right to your opinion".

Subject: RE: BS: Is Israel Anti-Semitic?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 06:46 PM

The Israeli regime engenders animosity in its non-Jewish neighbours by its aggressive attitude to any of those neighbours who have yet to sell out to the west. In addition, it discriminates against its own non-Jewish citizens. By usurping the best land for its own illegal settlements and building an apartheid wall that splits family farms in two and which encroaches on Palestinian land, it further exacerbates that animosity. There is a deliberate promotion by the regime and by its supporters in the west of a victim mentality. By trying to extend the definition of antisemitism to cover any criticism at all of Israel, it becomes antisemitic itself, an irony that has been pointed out many times on this forum. To sum up, the actions of the regime increase insecurity and encourage their enemies. That is the very opposite of what it means to act in the interests of your own people, which should be the first job of any government. In that regard, the Israeli regime is, in effect, helping to put Jewish people in harm's way by dint of just about the biggest exercise in upping the ante in the world today. The Jewish and non-Jewish people of Israel are no different to you and me. Like you and me, they need prosperity, security and peace. They have, unfortunately, endured governments who persistently act against those aspirations, and their western poodle, the United States, is fully complicit. Wow, who'd have thought that the US could get their foreign policy so wrong....

I support the continuing existence of the state of Israel and would like to see an Israel that can be a comfortable and prosperous partner in the Middle East. Each and every one of my remarks has been levelled against the regime only. I know that won't matter to two or three of the people here. Ho hum.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Israel Anti-Semitic?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 06:41 PM

Calm down bob... at least give this thread a chance before you kick off with your usual histrionics...

"Can't wait for the usual suspects to arrive and tell us what a horrible country Israel..."

.. or maybe you could for a change...

Subject: RE: BS: Is Israel Anti-Semitic?
From: bobad
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 06:25 PM

Oh look, another Jew baiting thread, what fun. Can't wait for the usual suspects to arrive and tell us what a horrible country Israel is. Of course it's only the "regime", the "government", the "state", the "Israel" lobby, etc........nudge, nudge, wink, wink. No different than Nazis they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Israel Anti-Semitic?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 06:23 PM

OK, so can we apply some logic here?

At issue is a poster campaign supported by Hungary's prime minister, Viktor Orban, that has targeted Mr. Soros for his support of services for refugees and immigrants. I have a very poor opinion of Orban's anti-refugee policies, and I get the impression that I would consider Soros to be an honorable person.

The poster campaign, which has also attracted explicitly anti-Semitic graffiti, "evokes sad memories but also sows hatred and fear," said the ambassador, referencing the fate of Hungarian Jews in the Holocaust.

Hungary has a long history of anti-Semitism, so one would expect anti-Semitic graffiti to appear in Hungary.

Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, raised the stakes in this feud last week when his foreign ministry issued a statement that, in effect, backed a Hungarian government propaganda effort against Mr. Soros and joined its denunciation of him. I also have a low opinion of Mr. Netanyahu.

What can we conclude from all this? That Netanayahu and Orban have political differences with Soros.

To conclude more, would be silly.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: BS: Is Israel's Government Anti-Semitic?
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 05:13 PM

ISRAEL'S WAR ON GEORGE SOROS

JAFFA, Israel — As a Holocaust survivor, a successful financier who embraces free market capitalism and a philanthropist who champions liberal democracy, George Soros should be a darling of the Israeli establishment. But Mr. Soros has failed the only litmus test that seems to count for Israel's current leadership: unconditional support for the government, despite its policies of occupation, discrimination and disregard for civil and human rights.

For years Mr. Soros largely avoided Israel-related philanthropy, but he became involved in 2008 when he contributed to J Street, a moderate pro-Israel, pro-peace lobbying group based in Washington, after it was founded. Through his Open Society Foundations, Mr. Soros also contributes to the Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem and the anti-occupation group Breaking the Silence, which have been subjected to a growing delegitimization campaign by the Israeli government.

Complete article HERE

Comments? (Please read the article first!)