Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: Fred
Date: 25 Feb 25 - 06:00 PM

Sorry to learn about this. I wish her all the best.

Fred

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Feb 25 - 05:50 PM

Just an update:

My friend's accident was right at the start of the month. Shortly after my last posting I heard that she'd had a stroke. Apparently attributed to the auto accident. Her husband stopped over at our common coffee stop a few days ago with her after several days of therapy. Her mind is okay, her hearing is still impaired, now she has some lateral motion issues. I'm not going to turn this into a medical thread other than related to music. I had already passed your helpful advice to her, for which much gratitude!

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 25 - 04:26 PM

Burst or puntured eardrums heal on their own.

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: Pappy Fiddle
Date: 18 Feb 25 - 08:54 PM

For musicians fearful of air bags,

1. There are earphones that block sound. I use them using a table saw. It turns the howling screech into a growl. I don't think these would be a good idea to wear while driving a car. Maybe couldn't hear sirens, honks, police whistles, etc..

2. There are electronic noise-cancelling earphones that block sound even more. Same problem.

3. There are earplugs that block loud noises, but pass softer sounds. People use these on firing ranges and hunting. I imagine they wouldn't be a problem driving a car. I don't know. Maybe check your local laws and/or ask a few cops (uh, bobbies? for you Brits)

My personal solution is to avoid driving in times and places of heavy traffic, but Your Mileage May Vary

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: leeneia
Date: 15 Feb 25 - 04:12 PM

"Most in middle America despise the "Nanny State" restrictions."

Gargoyle, you've been getting your info from the media, which like to emphasize the upsetting. No columnist or announcer knows the private habits of millions of people.

I and everyone I know use our seatbelts, have fire detectors, floss regularly and take precautions for safety and health.

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 14 Feb 25 - 06:48 PM

All the best to your friend.

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician inajury)
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Feb 25 - 04:45 PM

I did my own lookup re the steroids and the sense I took from my gleanings was that: it is a real thing but it
a) as you said, requires prompt treatment
b) why it works is unknown, and
c) usually applies when the source of hearing damage is unknown.

I did pass your info to my friend.
I like the idea of having the instrument with you.

THANKS!

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 10 Feb 25 - 05:47 PM

Probably need to take your instrument in with you when you see the audiologist! (Just as it's a good idea to take your instrument to your physiotherapist if you have have a playing-related injury!)

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 10 Feb 25 - 11:49 AM

I believe the standard music settings on hearing aids simply turn off the filters on the standard settings used to make speech more audible. I find this is OK for me. If a musician needs something more then it is possible to make more complex adjustments to the EQ, but that may require a specialist audiologist.

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 09 Feb 25 - 07:01 PM

I mentioned further up the thread the possibility of a trial of oral steroids, but the OP said that the accident had happened 4 days before, which is getting a bit late for steroids to be useful - best started within 24-48 hours of the hearing loss.
There is still a possibility of some degree of spontaneous recovery, but if that doesn’t happen, yes, most modern hearing aids can have a music setting added to them.

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musici an injury)
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Feb 25 - 05:53 PM

OP here:
Thank you for your responses. The latest regarding my information and the recovering victim:

Regarding hearing damage from airbags. One friend has done some reading and tells me that hearing damage from airbags is not unknown but is considered a very minor likelihood over the range of vehicle accidents.

I think I was in error in my own thinking of the damage as being the result of over-pressurization. What is going on is that deploying airbags are explosively loud. (I still wonder what if you're in a Prius with four people and you hit a wall and all the bags go off).

I was rear ended by a car on the highway about ten years ago. We were both in new cars. My airbags did not inflate. The girl behind me did experience it and she was crying from the experience.

As to my musician friend, she is probably going to be fitted for hearing aids for the near future and hope for the best. She's been told that hearing aids are mostly to make out conversations, but she knows a hard of hearing harpist who says that they can be tweaked for musical needs.

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 09 Feb 25 - 05:51 PM

Howard: By definition, a wavefront must be moving faster than the local speed of sound in the medium to be called “shock.” Density, pressure, & temperature all get downright unreal. But... this might not even be that intense. It was just speculation (see MaJoC the Filk's post above.)

I took OP as more concerned about the overpressure of the sheer volume of gas being suddenly released into the enclosed space. Have to be a pretty darn big bag(s?) in a really sporty, little, air-tight, econo number to make that kind of difference methinks.

And, like I said, an itty bitty firecracker, no shock, no volume, will still do plenty permanent hearing damage.

All of the above grossly oversimplified beyond any utility for modern 'smart' multi-bag systems on two continents.

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: Howard Jones
Date: 09 Feb 25 - 04:25 PM

The OP appears to distinguish between the shock wave and sound, but aren't they the same thing?

Of course reflections from surfaces will intensify the sound, but to avoid that then merely cracking the windows would not be sufficient.

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 09 Feb 25 - 02:48 PM

Geeky nerd alert:

Euro airbags are, generally, smaller and less energetic than the American types. But the smallest firecracker may do damage.

In any case the problem isn't the initial outgoing shock wave. In an open space the rise in air pressure (<10ms typical) is a single, transient event. But, in any enclosed environment the shock wave is bent and reflected back creating more complex waves of longer duration and greater intensity. More energy gets transmitted into a body's ears, eyes, lungs &c &c.

Rolling the windows down means less surface to reflect the shock wave back onto the occupants, not more room for the air to escape.

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 09 Feb 25 - 07:25 AM

Howard: It's a pulse of air, quite possibly a shock wave. The speed of sound in air is finite, so the air wouldn't have time to leak out before the damage in question is done; it's quite literally like a hammer blow to the eardrum.

Hope this helps. Apologies for hasty phrasing: my presence is required elsewhere.

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 09 Feb 25 - 06:23 AM

Isn't noise just displaced air? If by "air displacement" you mean the Archimedean principle that the air in the space now occupied by the deployed airbags has to go somewhere, then I suppose that it might result in an increase in air pressure within the cabin. But would this be enough to cause injury? The cabin is not a sealed unit and the air would be forced out through the gaps. Surely any increase in pressure due to displacement would be insignificant compared with that caused by the noise, similar in volume to a firearm. Would opening the windows have made any significant difference?

I hope your friend recovers. As a hearing aid wearer myself (age-related but no doubt exacerbated by 40 years of playing with PA) I sympathise. Modern hearing aids usually have a "music" setting, but this is intended for ordinary listening and may not meet the specialist needs of a musician. Your friend may need to find an audiologist who specialises in working with musicians and understands how to tune them to meet the wearer's precise needs.

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 07 Feb 25 - 09:09 PM

I know of folk who refused (1980) to use "mandatory" seat belts ... for fear they may burn-up in their car ... and it was safer "to be thrown clear."

Some other folk I know took delight in running and bouncing off new car bumpers in parking lots.

Most in middle America despise the "Nanny State" restrictions.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

I am sure your friend can find a young virgin lawyer to take the case for 40% net.

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 07 Feb 25 - 07:21 PM

For sudden unexplained hearing loss, the usual treatment is a very prompt course of oral steroids. In this case it doesn’t fall into the unexplained category, but might possibly have been worth trying, and asking his professional advisers about this.

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Feb 25 - 10:12 PM

Howard:
We're talking about two different things. I was concerned with air displacement. You are bringing up the impact of noise. I had no idea that the explosion of air bags created that much noise energy, which is definitely a physical danger to hearing. Thank you.

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed (Musician injury)
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 06 Feb 25 - 09:57 AM

I hadn't previously heard of this, but apparently hearing damage is a known risk. An airbag can generate upwards of 160 dB, well above the threshold for damage. It seems unlikely to me that opening the windows will make a material difference.

On the other hand, being dead isn't good for the hearing. Perhaps its a risk we must run for improved vehicle safety.

Subject: RE: Tech: Air Bags Deployed
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Feb 25 - 03:07 PM

How very frightening.

Subject: Tech: Air Bags Deployed
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Feb 25 - 02:40 PM

I am posting this above the line because a musician is involved.

Four days ago an acquaintance of mine, 50 plus years old, was in a traffic accident. Their body was shaken up but nothing broken, however the vehicle air bags inflated, it's cold out and the windows were closed, so the air in the sedan was pressurized and hearing was damaged.

This has been one of my pet fears, but so far I have not experienced it. I used to think that if I drove a vehicle with air bags I'd crack the windows, but another part of me figured that smart vehicle designers would have constructed such vehicles with air channels for just this purpose.

In this case my friend has been seen by professionals who told them their eardrums are okay, but won't predict whether or not their hearing will improve. My friend is going to a hearing aid provider, who I hope will have experience with this problem, which can't be that rare.

Anyone have experience with this? My friend is a musician which makes this achingly acute, literally.