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Non-Music: The Very Long Future
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: wysiwyg Date: 12 Mar 01 - 09:30 PM >>>>>>>>>>> hug received and >>>>>>>>>>>> sent on>>>>>>?? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: Amos Date: 12 Mar 01 - 08:09 PM Bert: The site is http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0012.html?printable=1. Since there is a parameter in the site URL, it may that it will choke if you aren't enabling Javascript -- I know the URL parameter is for the server-sideCGI or whatever, but sometimes that in turn feeds back to the client side, or maybe you're rejecting a cookie or something? I dunno -- but the link works okay for me! |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: wysiwyg Date: 12 Mar 01 - 03:02 PM Amergin, the real power is unleashed when you love even though you don't, at the moment, care. Action based on feelings is not as powerful as action taken despite feelings. And the power for that is sometimes beyond us. Still, I have been on the receiving end of it so richly that even when I button up as tight as I can-- when I get scared and hold back-- a little manages to leak out, I hope. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: Bert Date: 12 Mar 01 - 03:00 PM Well of course, how silly of me not to have noticed that. I consider myself well and truly hugged. Here's one for you ((((())))). Bert. |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: wysiwyg Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:58 PM I did too, bert, it was in the knock knock joke. It may have been unstated but it was there. It also contained a reference to pickles that will seem very obscure unless you search up a thread with that word in the title. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: Amergin Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:56 PM I don't know, Susan.....just the ability to care is a great power in and of itself.... |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: Bert Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:53 PM BWAAAAW! WYSIMELUV - you haven't hugged ME!. BOO HOO. I tried that link Amos but I got a "data error in the first line". I hesitate to suggest that that is the long term future of the internet. I must say though that I love extrapolations and at one time I was fairly good at making them. The art is to judge whether the data is linear or exponential or maybe follows some other curve. And one has to be realistic enough to admit that the results could be way out of line. Bert. |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: wysiwyg Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:41 PM So... mudwrestling is not just human beans wrestling among quantities of mud... it's mudpeople (mudly natures) wrestling one another among the human beans. Hmmmmm..... all the walls between words in my mind are falling down. Mudly. Muddly. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: Amos Date: 12 Mar 01 - 01:55 PM I concur fully that the notion of cloned data structures, even down to the quantum level, will never provide the soul-perspective you have rightly named as the missing piece, Bon. The funny thing is that this notion that enough information, data or switches stacked together will add up to life is completely illogical -- or at least becomes so the moment you differentiate between the motivating power of "life" (ability, knowing, intent) and the structural qualities of all the other elements -- form, structure, mass, spacetime fixing, etc.). OF course, this distinction itself seems illogical if you are already locked into the physical boundaries of existence to begin with. And philosophically, this distinction is not very popular in the Western soup of data and beliefs. One of the best to articulate it was Henri Bergson, the French philospher who coined (or at least popularized) the expression elan vital. But he got left in the dust of materialism and the life-as-mud school of thought in the post-war era. If you accept the premises of brain==>data==>person that Kurzweiler uses, (which I personally do not), it is a fascinating piece of thinking though. I would be interested to hear what Wolfgang's specific objections to it are. A |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: GUEST,Fed up, too Date: 12 Mar 01 - 09:13 AM to let: - let alone : to leave undisturbed also : to leave to oneself try it |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: Wolfgang Date: 12 Mar 01 - 08:15 AM Well written and well formulated but not well thought. A look into the history of failed predictions is sobering. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: Little Neophyte Date: 12 Mar 01 - 07:54 AM I mentioned 'soul perspective', yet souls don't have a perspective do they? Oh well, I hope you get the drift of what I am saying. Bonnie |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: Little Neophyte Date: 12 Mar 01 - 07:50 AM Amos I read as much of Ray Kurzweil's The Singularity is Near as I could before it got too disturbing for me. I read down to the section of 'Living For Ever' and 'Plan To Stick Around'. This does not mean I am not going to finish reading it but I had to stop there. Just too overwhelming to take in all at once. The only comfort I have is knowing that technology can not replicate the soul. Maybe I would not be able to tell the difference between a soul or a Singularity Clone Head walking down the street, but give time with the Clone Head, I hope I could sense the difference. I do pray that if all this does come to be that there is some benefit. Yet from a soul perspective, I can not see it. Or maybe for those like myself who believe in a higher power then whoever is running this Mother Ship will say......'that is enough kids, time to wipe the 'etch a sketch' clean and start over. I can not place my faith in technology. It does not offer me a sense of compassion, kindness, and love. Little Neo |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: wysiwyg Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:33 AM Shucks, 'gin, it doesn't take power to love someone who is just trying his darndest to be himself and expects the same from me. For me, all it takes is remembering where the real power comes from, and that it flows right through me. And you make that so very easy to do. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: Amergin Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:11 AM I don't know, Susan.....you do have the power to make me feel better.... |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: wysiwyg Date: 12 Mar 01 - 01:48 AM Gee, Guest, do you think YOU could stop ascribing so much power to me and just post however YOU want to post? I have the power to let anyone do anything? Or not? News to me! ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: GUEST,Fed up, too Date: 12 Mar 01 - 01:17 AM ~S~ or whomever you are this time, do you think you could just let people be themselves without explaining everything in minute and cutesy detail all of the time? Do you think you could let people defend themselves? Do you think you could just let the Forum be and quit trying to force it to be the way you want it to be? |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: Amos Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:33 AM Yeah, I'm me; so perhaps the protesting overmuch is from the veneratedf but anonymous old-timer, whoever it is. Anyway, he's right -- Kurzweil's relationship to music is that he advanced its cause through technology, not that he plays it. But this pure Mudcat versus new Mudcat argument has been going on for years and the policy of tolerance (except for extremes of offensiveness) has been set byy the playground's owner. A |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: wysiwyg Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:11 AM Well, roger, OK, but I can go you several notches better. I have not only been to Amos' house-- I have hugged him in the flesh, TWICE. I've met his family and we write and talk alla da time. And... don't ask me why... but I even have a photostat of his baptismal certificate from when he was a spratling (by the same name)! I even have an e-mail address for his sister! PLUS I now own the Mac he used... I'll go see if any secret identities are hidden on that as soon as the insurance company pays for its restoration from our fire. (It got smoked.) I do wonder somtimes if he's real but that's just because he's such an intelligent, eclectic guy I can't see how he could know so much in one person's lifetime. (Ooops-- there I go forgetting about his past lives again! Sorry BG!) I am sure he has always been his own seff. How this relates to his music is that Amos writes songs about everything, and thinks about everything, and wants to know what other people think about too, which he then writes into his songs. When his novel comes out you will understand how physics and the future relate to the folk process. I think a CD is planned to be included. *G* You will love the novel BTW. I know I did, even though seeing it in "mere" first draft stage. BTW Amos, how IS that novel coming along? Been awhile since you gave us all an update. ~Susan PS, He IS a little quick to play "Puddem up," but just for fun. Smart people get bored so easily! (Geeze, don't anybody tell Barky about this thread, or she'll come over here and smack us all around!) |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: rangeroger Date: 11 Mar 01 - 08:36 PM Amos really is Amos. I have met him in person and if "Guest" had taken the time to look at his profile on the Resources page,he would have found that to be true. rr |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: GUEST,pete M at work Date: 11 Mar 01 - 07:54 PM Amos, methinks you do protest too much. I agree that Mr. Kurzweil has made some remarkable contributions to technology, I'm familiar with his written text recognition software, and I'm sure that anything he writes is worth reading, I'll follow the link you provide when I've finished writing this, but unfortunately that does qualify him as a prophet. The extrapolation of progress in any technological field usually ignore the fundamental problem that change and the rate of change in technology is not driven by technological capability but by social and economic factors which cannot be predicted, and are not universal. I would also endorse "Guests" call for real names to be used on postings although he rather spoils the case by not signing his post Pete M
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: SINSULL Date: 11 Mar 01 - 07:33 PM anticipation / PROOFREAD, THEN CLICK! |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: SINSULL Date: 11 Mar 01 - 07:32 PM Amos, For reasons unknown, everytime I hit a blue clicky AOL throws me off. I will check this out tomorrow from work. Meantime, I remember getting one of the first hand-held calculators as a gift and wondering what would come next. I could never have imagined a PC in my home or the world at my fingertips via the internet AT THAT TIME. Now I am frustrated with the constant antidipation of what is coming next and where it will lead. Just saw an article about a waiting list of hundreds of couples who want to clone themselves. Our governments pretend that human cloning is not happening and their citizens are preparing to make use of the technology.Brave new world... |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: GUEST Date: 11 Mar 01 - 07:13 PM I was here when that 'a magazine dedicated to blues and folk music' in the first line on the homepage of the Forum meant what it said. Now every sort of sense and nonsense is allowed, and I've as much right as anyone to do it. I pleaded in vain for real return addresses on all postings so pseudonyms like Amos wouldn't hide real identities. What's your excuse for dragging future and Kurzweil into blues and folk music Amos, or whoever you are? |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: wysiwyg Date: 11 Mar 01 - 06:40 PM (Smoothing the feathers ruffled by thunderbolts so all the pretty colors flash again...) Be thou Hummingbird, lovely one. Not every territory is to be defended to the death... some are just to visit and enjoy. So many pretty red flowers, so little time. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: Amos Date: 11 Mar 01 - 06:36 PM Thanks, dearie; I am sure that suggestion is just what I needed. Kurzweil in one of the most brilliant voices on the Net. Pusillanimous Peckerheads Anonymous can just butt out. Grump, grump. A |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: wysiwyg Date: 11 Mar 01 - 05:57 PM Amos Dearest, And may I suggest that you not turn this thread into another opportunity to joust with straw men, and simply continue offering the astounding gift of your wonderful insights as though no one is arguing with you? ~Pushy Broad ~AKA Friend ~AKA Sugar Dog ~AKA Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon Girlmudgeon |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: Amos Date: 11 Mar 01 - 05:50 PM Easy and thoughtless remark; may I suggest you read Mr Kurzweil's paper and examine his numbers before you reach conclusions? A |
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Subject: RE: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: GUEST Date: 11 Mar 01 - 05:25 PM One of the very few prediction that I know about that ever came out close to being correct was a paper given at a meeting of and engineering society in the early 20th century, when is was predicted that those new fangled things called automobiles would soon cause the disappearance of all cities into a big low lying cloud of smog. Prophets are such masters of ambiguity that their predictions can be claimed as correct no matter what happens.
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Subject: Non-Music: The Very Long Future From: Amos Date: 11 Mar 01 - 02:08 PM A Breathtaking Analysis of the Long Future
While almost all of us have probably thought with some interest about emerging technologies, and certainly noticed the impact of technologies that were emerging from the labs only twenty years ago, it is probably not quite so obvious from normal perspective that the combined curve of both technological emergence and information itself is on a curve that grows exponentially and does so on an exponential rate increase of acceleration. In other words, the normal predictive habit is to extend the current rate of change into the future ( a linear extrapolation) but the actual rate of change itself is growing exponentially, not just linearly, so the impact of future change is subject to serious underestimation on these fronts (information and technological growth). One of the most interesting extensions of these points has been posted by the remarkable inventor and analyst Ray Kurzweil at this site. Although some of his extended estimations may seem far-fetched, especially if you disallow his tight coupling between information, computation and person, it makes a terrific read. Some may even say inspiring. It also provides a good argument to continue preserving the best of our best ancient songs in every way we can, although Kurzweil doesn't mention that. Reminds me of a planet called Tern, in a galaxy far, far from here. (:>)) Enjoy. Regards, Amos |
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