BS: legal rewards

Subject: RE: BS: legal rewards
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 11 Dec 01 - 05:24 PM

I'd like to support Steves post by saying that comparing a vocation (something one chooses, and in this case, a rather lucrative one) and ones ehtnicity (something one cannot change, as, if it were possible, countless jews in Germany during WWII need not have died), is not a fair assessment.

Consider too that needing a lawyer and actually being able to obtain one are very different things. Anyone needing to sue another person (child support comes to mind) needs to be able to afford it. In cases where one cannot afford it, "justice" seems only for those with enough money.

This can lead to jokes like this one.

Subject: RE: BS: legal rewards
From: ddw
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 07:35 PM

Deda,

I think you've hit one of the big reasons the public has a dim view of lawyers, but I'm not sure it's a fair one. The English common law (upon which U.S. and Canadian law are based) starts with the premise of innocence until proven guilty and carries it further with the edict that EVERY man is entitled to the best defence possible.

That puts an onus on defence lawyers to do anything they can to DEFEND the assumed innocence. Almost any defence lawyer, however, will not argue for the acquittal of someone they KNOW to be guilty. That's why a cardinal rule for defence lawyers is to never ask that particular question. If they do and if the answer is yes, they are bound by all professional ethics (and their oaths as officers of the court) to enter a guilty plea and argue for mitigation of sentence — i.e., to seek what is best in the way of counselling, rehabilitation, etc. — for the client.

I've got no problem with that — it may allow the odd guilty party to go free, but it goes a long way (tho' not all the way) to keeping innocent people out of jail.

Where I (and a lot of my lawyer friends) have difficulty with the profession is among the ambulance chasers and their ilk. They are the ones who have made it an almost dying thing for our children to have field trips (no parents want to leave themselves open to the liability), playgrounds are being closed, swimming holes are off limits, people are afraid to have parties and bars can't operate. They're the lawyers who do everything they can to convince the public that anything that happens to anybody is somebody else's fault and SOMEBODY'S GOT TO PAY! They have undercut the quality of life and liberty to an unbelievable degree and usually the ones who pursue that kind of thing are the ones who end up with most of the settlement money. That, I think, is the thing the public should be up in arms about.

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: BS: legal rewards
From: kendall
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 07:28 PM

First, this is a very old joke. I first heard it ages ago, and it was a woman who freed the genie, and her ex husband was the "victim".

What we forget, or dont know, is that our judicial system is based on the "adversary principal" A lawyers job is to see that his client gets a fair trial, and the state has the job of proving him/her guilty. Sort of like a boxing match. The problem with this is, the defendant, if he is rich enough, can afford Mike Tyson, while the state can only put up a green beginner, or a has been, such as Joe Nobody or Roberto Duran. Furthermore, it is the law that the state has to prove him/her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. So, if the defense can create a little doubt in the mind of just one juror, he/she walks. Lastly, ours is the most litigeous society in history, and, the lawyers dont create cases, WE DO! I used to enjoy butting heads with lawyers. I lost one case in 17 years because I only took the ones I knew I could prove to court in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: legal rewards
From: GUEST,Deda
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 06:58 PM

It seems to me that the reason that lawyers become the butt of so many jokes is that many of them, at least the ones that become visible, a la Johnny Cochran, are working for money, often LOTS of money, but don't seem to have too many scruples about whether their clients are murderers or not. They are like the old sophists of the ancient world, arguing for the sake of arguing, interested primarily in winning the argument, not in establishing truth. Our adversarial legal system is set up that way. Some of us out here in the real world work for relatively little money, compared to lawyers, but are scrupulously honest. Sometimes, I dare say, we remember that old line about no good deed going unpunished, and we feel something less that charitable toward lawyers.

Subject: RE: BS: legal rewards
From: ddw
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 06:16 PM

Yeah, Kim. After being a court reporter for a lot of years, I count a lot of lawyers and judges as friends and I think I've heard 90 per cent of the lawyer jokes I've ever heard — including this one — from them. Most don't take themselves so seriously they can't laugh at themselves and they know their profession is one that doesn't always put them first in the hearts and minds of the public. Neither does mine. Goes with the territory. As far as the jokes go, they've been around for a long time. Which of Shakespeare's plays is that a character, musing on what he would do if he ruled the world, said something to the effect "first, we kill all the lawyers."

C'est la vie....

david

Subject: RE: BS: legal rewards
From: Kim C
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 02:03 PM

My stepfather is a retired insurance lawyer. He appreciates a good lawyer joke once in awhile.

The thing is, every profession has people in it that make everyone else look bad. Personally, I think most doctors and lawyers are good folk and out to help people. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: legal rewards
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 01:54 PM

Because lawyers are not an ethnic minority?

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: legal rewards
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 01:43 PM

You wish.............

Subject: RE: BS: legal rewards
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 09 Dec 01 - 09:23 PM

When you have a legal problem make sure you consult a genie.

Subject: RE: BS: legal rewards
From: ddw
Date: 09 Dec 01 - 09:16 PM

Jeez, Midchuck. Touchy or what?

Just happens a lawyer friend told me the joke and he and most of my other lawyer friends thought it was funny. The humor is in the cleverness of the answer, not the fact it makes fun of lawyers.

If that doesn't satisfy you, go check out my post the "political correctness" thread and then go piss up a rope.

dasvid

Subject: RE: BS: legal rewards
From: Midchuck
Date: 09 Dec 01 - 08:54 PM

Why say "Lawyer?" Why not say "Jew" or "N*****?"

But you wouldn't do that because it would be nasty.

Were I not a perfect gentleman at all times, I would say "Fuck you and the horse you rode in on." Since I am, I will only say that I hope you get swept up in Ashcroft's suspect roundup, and need a lawyer in a hurry.

Peter (a lawyer, in his day job, if you hadn't guessed.)

Subject: legal rewards
From: ddw
Date: 09 Dec 01 - 07:31 PM

A man was walking along a beach and found a bottle washed ashore. He picked it up, brushed the sand off and a genie popped out.

"Ah, sir — thank you for freeing me," the genie said. "For that I will grant you three wishes. But be careful in your choices, because for everything I grant you, I will have to give every lawyer in the world a double portion of it."

The man thought for a moment and "I'd like to have a billion dollars."

"Done," said the genie. "But I must also give every lawyer two billion dollars."

"That's OK," said the man. "For my second with, I'd like to have a mansion overlooking the ocean."

"Done," said the genie. "And now every lawyer has two mansions overlooking the sea. And what would you like for your third wish?"

Again the man thought for a minute, then said quietly: "See that stick over there? I want you to pick it up and beat me half to death."

Cheers,

david