Can you identify this music?

Subject: RE: Can you identify this music?
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 04:29 PM

I've heard some old-style Polynesian singing(from near Tahiti) that definitely uses non-Occidental scales. A million miles from modern sweet Maori/Polynesian/Hawaiian harmonically based stuff. Conventional three-ch0rd trick hymn harmonies and guitars transformed African and Pacific music completely: it's nice to know there's still a few pockets of resistance, but I imagine they are few and far between now, unless close to the Asian mainland.
Where Jesus arrived, so did G/C/D7 !!

Subject: RE: Can you identify this music?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 04:20 PM

Herrn Schaum,

Being totally ignorant, I seek the help of others.

Subject: RE: Can you identify this music?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 04:28 AM

Misophist - I think the crucial remark is: "...old style music, different scale from newer stuff. Haoles can't even hear where the notes are ...".
In Occidental music the scales are in half tones (semitones), in Oriental music (as I've heard it in the Near East and North Africa) they have quarter tones which are very difficult to distinguish for the European ear (my English-German dictionary even doesn't know the term).
Might this be the case with Far Eastern and Hawaiian music, too?

Wilfried

Subject: RE: Can you identify this music?
From: NicoleC
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 01:11 AM

Doesn't Hawaii have a long tradition of contact with Asia and southeastern Asia as well as other Pacific islands? If they traded goods and news, I would guess that musical ideas would inevitably come along too. There could be some common roots as old as 2000 years, that might explain some similarities.

Subject: RE: Can you identify this music?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 11:40 PM

I have an idea that the family she heard was just singing some of the old pre-Hawaii Calls material, probably paniolo, as M Ted suggests. I have heard a little of it on Molokai and elsewhere but now it exists mostly on old records and tapes.
I have been trying to find the origin of "Whoo (Who)" or the Owl's Lullaby sung on the Big Island by some of the old timers and recorded in Na Mele Paniolo (two-tape album), issued by the State Foundation on Culture and the Arts. Kindy Sproat was the vocalist, and although well-along in years, could still hit the high notes and do the voice breaks in text lines of a song (not just "yodels").
Sproat's rendition of "O Pu'ulani" in this album is a gem of leo ki'eki'e, or male falsetto singing, which seems to have originated with the Mexican Vaqueros who were brought to Hawai'i. The Hawaiians took to this kind of singing and made it their own, with new variations.
This album, Na Mele Paniolo, may still be available through the Bishop Museum, although my last noted release date for it was with a revised booklet in 1992.

I would guess that any resemblance to the singing of Laos, or old time Chamoro (most now sing in current styles, including reggae), is just coincidental.

Subject: RE: BS: Can you identify this music?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 10:21 PM

Of course, I can't know the answer because I wasn't there. But this Tau Moe sounds like it might be the one. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Can you identify this music?
From: M.Ted
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 06:05 PM

Bob Brozman's relatively recent album with the Tau Moe Family will give you a fair sense of what the vocals sounded like, as will some of the family's old recordings as Mme. Riviere's Hawaiian's--they began recording in 1929, but even then, their music was regarded as old style, which meant that it sounded more like the Hawaiian music from before the turn of the century--

The singing has a lot of voice breaks(yodelling) and features polyphonic harmonic singing. with some of the singers singing parts that have what seem like deliberate wrong notes to the "haoli" ear--and often have voices singing parts that are non-melodic--

Origins of the music are a bit obscure--the oldest style of Hawaiian singing comes from the chants of the old religion, and is probably as old as the Hawaiians themselves but this music has very few notes, and was either unaccompanied or sung along with drums, and is different from the old style of singing --missionaries came and taught the Hawaiians hymns, and harmonies, and Portuguese and Mexican cowboys taught them some of their stuff, possibly including the falsetto singing that is such a big part of the music--Hawaiian music has been formally taught to Hawaiians since the last century, and there has been a revival in interest in the musical traditions over the last few years, but I don't know how many really try to preserve the old style- Mark will probably be able to add a lot more--

Subject: RE: BS: Can you identify this music?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 04:52 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Can you identify this music?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 06:42 PM

Probably need Mark on this one. In the meantime, look at Huapala.org for some reliable information on Hawai'ian music and Hula: Huapala

Subject: RE: BS: Can you identify this music?
From: Tweed
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 06:27 PM

That's a good one Misophist and told well enough to make me sit up and follow this thread. You got the hairs standing up on my neck. Where's Mark from Hawaii? I'll bet he knows something about this.

Tweed

Subject: BS: Can you identify this music?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 06:19 PM

In a conversation with a technician recently, she mentioned a type of music I never heard of. It sounds too interesting to ignore. Rather than try to describe it, I'll repeat the tale she told. It's more interesting that way.

Because of her father's job with the Peace Corps, she grew up all around the Pacific, usually out in the boonies. She liked to sing and even though she couldn't always pick up the language, she always learned the songs of the area she was in. She spent a lot of time in Laos and Guam. When she was 12 or 14, they moved to one of the smaller, less developed Hawai'ian islands. Exploring the area, she followed the sound of singing to a small house where some people on the porch were passing a guitar around and singing. She thought she'd done something wrong when she began scatting along with the music and they all stopped and stared. Finally, a woman said "This is old style music, different scale from newer stuff. Haoles can't even hear where the notes are, so how can you sing this?" She learned in Guam and Laos, of course. My question is: what is this music? What is it called? Is any recorded? What are the roots? Inquiring idiots want to know. Sorry the storey wasn't told any better. I did my best.