BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 06:59 PM

No death penalty in Canada. Canada won't extradite to the US if there is a chance of the death penalty.

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)
From: Hrothgar
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 02:48 AM

The act of a statesman, not a politician. Maybe he is one of the Republicans who is a political descendant of Abraham Lincoln.

More power to his elbow!

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemenc
From: mack/misophist
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 11:41 AM

It's time for the government to consider repairing another inequity in our legal system. What do we do when a person is prison is found to be innocent? Turn them loose with a pat on the back and a 'Sorry about that'. It's about time we considered compensation for destroying a life. Past time.

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 11:40 AM

Bobert, I agree totally with the way you are seeing this. Had he been a Democrat, the Republicans would be calling for his head on the Sunday morning talk shows.

It is also pathetic that rather than talk about the reasons why Ryan did what he did, the right wing media is focusing instead on the easy sleezy story: the victims' families. Not only are they not covering the opinions of victims' families who are opposed to the death penalty, or even just the death penalty in their family's case, but they aren't discussing what should be of major concern to everyone: that there are still murderers out there who have escaped justice for their heinous crimes.

The issue is the way that innocently people get wrongly convicted, and the guilty parties escape prosecution for their crimes. Ryan is saying that is precisely what needs to be addressed in our nation's criminal justice system, and of course he is right. I believe the time has come to review every death row case in the country, and the decision be made, at the very least, that no one can be put to death without the strongest DNA evidence. Wherever there is no clear cut DNA evidence, there should be no execution, and the sentences should be commuted, at the very least, and retrials be granted in many cases where there is strong evidence that the inmate was wrongly convicted.

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 11:30 AM

Donuel, regarding the above case, I just read this in my morning paper, the Minneapolis Star Tribune:

I'm just including highlights of the article, which is a reprint from the NYT.

Blackface in New York parade not meant as slur, ex-officer says
Benjamin Weiser
New York Times

Published Jan. 12, 2003 SLUR12
   
NEW YORK -- A former New York City police officer testified Tuesday that he wore blackface on a Labor Day parade float in Queens in 1998 because he wanted to entertain people, make them laugh and win a trophy.

He said he concluded that the float, called "Black to the Future: 2098," was offensive only after he watched it later on television.

Locurto, 35, and two former firefighters, Jonathan Walters and Robert Steiner, who were all fired for their roles in the parade, testified in a trial in U.S. District Court in Manhattan. All three have sued seeking reinstatement and contending that their dismissals were based on the content of their speech and violated their First Amendment rights.

Giuliani sharply condemned the float at the time and said of the officer, "The only way this guy gets back on the police force is if the Supreme Court of the United States tells us to put him back."

In his testimony, Locurto said he had used black lipstick to paint his face, and wore a black wig during the parade, in Broad Channel. The float also included tubs of fried chicken, and some participants threw watermelon slices to spectators, testimony showed.

Walters testified that he twice briefly hung to the back of the truck carrying the float to re-enact the killing of James Byrd Jr., a black man who was dragged to his death behind a pickup truck in Texas the previous June.

"Did you intend it to be racist?" his lawyer, Michael Block, asked.

"No, sir," Walters replied.

Walters said the float was intended to parody the views of the mostly white Broad Channel community, and to show "how foolish their stereotypes were."

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)
From: harpgirl
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 11:25 AM

...hmmm...once again we have been treated to our dear GUEST'S last word on what is right and wrong in America. Thanks so much for helping me to see what I should think. I am lost without your opinions oh great anonymous, cowardly GUEST!

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 11:04 AM

Texas is the execution capitol.

When George W was governor a Texas black man was dragged by a chain around his neck behind a pickup truck until his head came off. The good ol white boys who did it were caught. Gov. George never condemned the act. Never sent even a staffer to the funeral of the victim.

Do you know what happened ? ...there was a debate about the unfairness of having a seperate catagory of crimes deemed hate crimes.

I still wonder if those pickup lynchers were ever executed?

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 10:53 AM

Hey, folks. Upon careful reconsideration and reflection, had this been a Democratic Governor doing this, then Saddam and North Korea would have been wiped aside as the Repub. hierachy would have taken to the airwaves in droves, calling for this guy's head.

But you can plainly see where the media lines up on the issue with one mother after another talking about her son's loss and how the killer was such a bad person. Well, I don't disagree but wouldn't it be nice to see some balance. Like some victim's relatives who are Christain and have forgiven this or that bad person. Used to be we heard about these folks but now all we get is this squewed coverage. And how about some folks from Amnesty International or other anti-capital punishment folks in the media. Nope.

And again, *No. No. A thousand times no!* I am not condoning any murder! Sop don't even go there...

We either believe in the sanctity of life or we don't! I do...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 10:04 AM

The best thing that could happen in regards to this stunning move, is that the debate on the death penalty in US be reopened, and we once again be allowed to join the civilized world on the issue. Right now, we look a bit like the Taliban down in Texas.

I think religion definitely needs to be left out of the debate though. I think we need to stick to the things we as a society can agree about. We need to examine what the reasons and justifications are for having a death penalty, and then decide on whether those reasons and justifications are legitimate and applicable.

I can think of only two reasons and justification to exercise the death penalty. First is vengeance. Second is deterrence. Is there a third?

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)
From: sed
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 09:58 AM

Our outgoing governor lost much of his support when he executed a retarded man a few years ago. He has a few days to remove death sentences and I pray he will.

May God direct us all to trust His judgement and not our own.

Steve of Alabama

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)
From: Barry Finn
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 11:25 PM

A brave move even more so for a Republician. The death penatly system is more than broke, it's been used for murder by those that were to uphold it & see justice done. The 4 men that walked free after more than 12 yrs on death row were found to have been tortured into confessions by Chicago police. This just keeps on happening more & more. Not to long ago John Nolan (past mudcatter), a former Scottish cop now an award wining New Hampshire reporter was covering a story about a guy on death row who'd been there for 5 or so yrs. While covering this guy's story John began to smell something was rotten (might have been because of his former occupation). He dug deeper unil he got to the truth. Truth be told an innocent man from the Lawerence/Lowell area of Mass (U.S.) had been railroaded & luckly (it was pure luck) he was finally set free. Even 1 wrongfull death is not exceptable & those that helped in anyway in their convictions are themselves guilty of murder. This is a long time coming. Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 11:09 PM

I was just watching WGN news from Chicago. The entire state seems to be going banannas about, in one direction or another. I find it impossible to see Ryan's move as a bad thing. I just hope that someone follows it up properly with re-investigations of some sort.

Stephen Lee

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 11:01 PM

Oh please, a temper tantrum? That's the spirit there, Art.

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)
From: Art Thieme
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 10:59 PM

Yes, George Ryan did the right thing today even if it might've been, in part, to preserve a scandal-tarnished historical legacy.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)
From: Art Thieme
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 10:55 PM

Well, I just re-read the first post. Before, I just didn't read far enough. I still don't know what that about Richard Daley says. But it does look like guest and I agree------------AND, my friend, Joe Offer himself, the very one all of the Joe clones are derived from like the goblins and orcs are mushed and ooozed into one fell genus, was the one I thought (and called) a culprit.

I TAKE IT ALL BACK!!

Arthur David Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)
From: Art Thieme
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 10:47 PM

What the hell happened to my thread? Where and who and how and why did Batman get into it??? Folks, for whatever reason, someone altered the title, the intent and also the beginning post of this thread. I'm at a bit of a loss as to why it was done. This wasn't one of those threads that demanded someone censor it! Neither was it pornographic or demeaning of any other Mudcatter. I did not start it as a GUEST-----but if people insist on editing the things I put up here and/or giving credit to the rantings of a mere guest, I will change my name or revert to actually being a GUEST myself.

'nuf said.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)
From: Peg
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 10:28 PM

I wish the governor of Arkansas woud take a cue from this good gentleman and look into exonerating the West Memphis Three...

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemency)
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 10:28 PM

Well, our side won one...

Now let's make Junior stop his plans for invading Iraq with a big turn out a week from today, Jan. 18th...

Hey, the correct side may be on a little roll here...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemenc
From: mack/misophist
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 10:17 PM

Even though I am in favour of the death penalty, it a situation in which even one error is unacceptable. He did the right thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Holy Commutation Batman! (Illinois Clemenc
From: curmudgeon
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 10:16 PM

Now when will another politician stand up to oppose state commited ritual murder at public expense?

Subject: RE: BS: IL Gov G. Ryan-clemcy to death row
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 08:12 PM

See my Holy Commutation Batman! thread. It is true.

Subject: BS: IL Gov G. Ryan-clemency to death row
From: Art Thieme
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 08:10 PM

If the reports are true, Illinois Governor George Ryan has issued a blanket clemency to all inmates on death row in this state. He has been under fire for a drivers license selling scandal when he was the Secy. Of State of Illinois. After he became governor, it became obvious, with the advent of DNA testing, that many people on death row were innocent. They were subsequently released. As time passed, it became clear that many others may have been innocent as well---or at least their sentences to die could be questioned. Tonight the whole system allowing the state to continue the killing of convicts is being questioned.

This was, I feel, quite a stunning and brave act ----one which is only rivaled in state history by Governor Altgeld's amazing early 20th century pardoning of the remaining men convicted following the Haymarket Riot and bombing in Chicago's Haymarket Square during the labor fights for the 8-hour day.

I, for one, am quite proud to be a resident of the State Of Illinois tonight !!

Art Thieme

Subject: BS: Holy Commutation Batman!
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 04:57 PM

It is a rare occassion I find myself in agreement with Irish American politicians from Illinois (King Richard Daley's machine still has a lot of political power, even downstate), especially a conservative Republican, no less. But it is nice to see even a politician do the right thing for the right reasons once in awhile. Too bad doing the right thing for the right reasons is so shocking!


From the Reuters website:

Illinois Gov. Commutes All Death Sentences
Sat January 11, 2003 03:14 PM ET
By Emily Kaiser

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Saying the death penalty system was broken, the governor of Illinois granted clemency to more than 150 death row inmates on Saturday, a move unprecedented since capital punishment was reinstated and likely to inflame a national death penalty debate.

Gov. George Ryan -- a Republican who leaves office Monday after one term -- stopped short of pardoning the prisoners but reduced their sentences to a maximum of life in prison.

"How many more cases of wrongful convictions have to occur before we can all agree that this system in Illinois is broken?" Ryan told a cheering audience at Northwestern University Law School that included several wrongfully convicted former death row inmates.

The blanket commutation follows an examination of the state's capital punishment system ordered nearly three years ago after investigations found that 13 prisoners on death row were innocent.

Ryan said he was a staunch supporter of the death penalty when he took office four years ago, but began to change his mind after watching a wrongfully convicted man walk free -- only 48 hours before he was scheduled to be executed.

"I may never be comfortable with my final decision, but I'll know in my heart that I did my very best to do the right thing," he said.

Democrat Rod Blagojevich, who takes over as governor on Monday, criticized Ryan's decision.

"A blanket anything is usually wrong," he said. "There is no one-size-fits-all approach. We're talking about people who committed murder."

Charles Hoffman, a death penalty defense attorney in Chicago who works for the Illinois Coalition Against the Death Penalty, said the Illinois constitution gives the governor the broadest kind of clemency powers.

"On legal grounds a pardon or clemency is final, final, final," he said.

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Messages from multiple threads combined.
-Joe Offer-