When did resonator Banjoes appear?

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: Songster Bob
Date: 28 Jan 03 - 03:28 PM

I remember reading a reference to someone seeing a performer in the 1880s who had something hung from a cord around his neck, behind his banjo. The banjo was louder than the norm for stage instruments, and the observer wondered why. He watched closely as the performer went off-stage, and saw that it was a mirror, hanging on the cord, held against the chest by the banjo. It wasn't long before the resonator-ed banjo appeared. I assume that the same principle was applied by many different players/makers from Minstrel Show days on up till commercial banjos started to appear with resonators.

Tone rings have their own story.

Bob Clayton

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 28 Jan 03 - 10:33 AM

Jon,

Thanks for that information.

Geoff, I wish you hadn't posted that Patents site. I know I'll get lost in there. LOL

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 03 - 10:26 AM

Have just been pointed to a "H.C. Dobson "Silver Bell Patent" 5-string banjo Circa 1885 an example of this early tone ring banjo ishere.

I won't copy any more posts over here (if they occur) but will leave you to look at alt.banjo if you wish.

Jon

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 03 - 10:12 AM

Here's the relply I had at alt banjo, from Peter Roehling:

Jon Freeman wrote:
>
>When was a resonator back first fitted to a banjo?

Depends on how you define "resonator". The concept was there quite
early, circa the early 1860s, but those resonators were built as an
integral part of the pot: the resonator was glued on and did not
normally come off.

Next up would come the simple disc-shaped spin-on resonators that you
see on (for instance) Fairbanks/Vega banjos starting in about 1912.
These were certainly removable resonators, but the pots had no mounting flange and the resonators had no outer wall as do the more modern ones.

The full-out flange mounted removable resonator seems to have been
introduced by Paramount in the very early 1920s, and most others since then have followed that same pattern.

Note that all three designs do exactly the same job.

> When were tone rings introduced?

Simple 1/4" round brass rings showed up in the 1880s(?), more complex
brazed rings such as the Whyte Laydie were developed in the late 1890s, and the "modern" cast style tone rings became common in the 1920s.

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 28 Jan 03 - 09:45 AM

Here is a reference to Alfred Cammeyer ALFRED CAMMEYER BLICKY http://www.classicbanjo.com/ music.html#al and his Zither Banjos ZITHER BANJO BLICKY http://www.classicbanjo.com/instru.html#zither dating some form of resonator as 1888.
This site looks like one to search for your information - BLICKY TO http://www.banjopatents.com/sitemap.html - and loads of other banjo questions/answers?
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: Charcloth
Date: 28 Jan 03 - 03:58 AM

good question Steve. I'd been a wondering about that sort of thing myself.

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 27 Jan 03 - 10:46 PM

Cool

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 27 Jan 03 - 10:43 PM

The Bacon, NOT Bacon and Day, has a simple pot which is spun brass over maple. 16 hooks and brackets. The pot is about 1/2" thick and is 11 and 3/8 inches across. It takes a high crown head. It has a very plain neck with a round cap on the heel. The resonator sits over the pot and is held in position by a single threaded fastener through the wooden dowel stick. The screw pulls the pot against the pot where it rests in four shoes that keep it a uniform distance from the sides and bottom of the pot.

I found it or its twin in a pre-WWI reprint Sears catalog.

Thats all the info I have.

Don

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 27 Jan 03 - 10:15 PM

Thanks Guest.

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 03 - 10:12 PM

Don't have an answer Steve but have just posted the question to alt.banjo.

Will post back if I get anything that looks useful.

Jon

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 27 Jan 03 - 09:28 PM

Don, I'm talking about the Mastertone style. Does your Bacon have a Tone Ring too? (now we're gettin' somewhere).

Frank, I'll hav to find that book. Thanks.

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 27 Jan 03 - 09:16 PM

Now we have a couple of different notions of what is a resonator here. If you mean the resonator pot like in a Gibson Master tone I have a Bacon banjo from about 1910 with a resonator pot that appears to be original.

If we are talking resonator types like in the Dobro, I still think mid to late 20's for a US presence.

Don

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: GUEST,DICKINNORWICH
Date: 27 Jan 03 - 06:37 PM

SOMETIME IN THE 20'S. I READ AN ARTICLE A LONG TIME BACK, MAYBE IN AN OLD "PICKIN" MAGAZINE, ABOUT A TENOR PLAYER, MAYBE EMANUAL SAYLES(?) WHO HELD A WOODEN CHAIR SEAT IN HIS LAP AGAINST THE BACK OF HIS BANJO. CHECK WITH GIBSON BANJOS BECAUSE THAT COMPANY HAS BEEN THROUGH ALL THE VARIOUS ITERATIONS. TRAP DOOR RESONATORS I BELIEVE EXISTED PRIOR TO WHAT WE USE NOW.

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 27 Jan 03 - 06:28 PM

Karen Lyn may have some info in "That Half Barbaric Twang". A must read for banjo lovers.

I would think that the resonator appeared when the tenor banjo became popular so that it would sonically compete with horns in the jazz bands. My view is that the banjo cut through the early recordings and when recording became sophisticated, the guitar took over. Eddy Lang probably was responsible for doing in the tenor banjo.

I would think around 1914 or so. Because the tenor banjo (according to Karen Lyn) was called the Tango banjo originally since there was a tango craze in the US at that time. It was later called the tenor banjo.

Frank

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 27 Jan 03 - 02:19 PM

Refresh

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 26 Jan 03 - 06:51 PM

And the tenor banjo tuned like a mandola or a viola dates from the late eighteen nineties when string quartets were losing out on work because every one wanted banjo bands so they made a banjo that the viola player could play without learning a new tuning.

   I got that gem of totally useless information from the old guy who used to run the Clifford Essex shop in London thirty years ago.

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: GUEST,mandomaniac
Date: 26 Jan 03 - 04:19 PM

The question ins't when, but...WHY! AND WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO STOP! Sorry, just kidding...some of my best friends are banjo players.

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 26 Jan 03 - 03:23 PM

I knoe the Dobro people made a resonator banjo almost as soon as they made a resonator guitar/dobro. 19 20's is my guess.

Don

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: prodnose
Date: 26 Jan 03 - 02:30 PM

Larry Sandbergs book 'complete banjo repair' refers to a tone ring of 1880's by Dobson Brothers.(p80)but I can find no dates for early resonators.

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jan 03 - 02:29 PM

"The 4 string banjo was invented by a fella who couldn't play the 5 string banjo." (Granpa Jones)

Subject: RE: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 26 Jan 03 - 02:16 PM

I don't know about the Resonator as an overlapping plate fastened behind the pot, but In the UK closed backed banjos existed in the late 1800s. Zither Banjoes (as invented by Alfred D. Cammeyer - circa 1890) were usually closed backed with a cast iron pot contained within a solid backed wooden pot.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: When did resonator Banjoes appear?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 26 Jan 03 - 12:10 PM

I peruse eBay quite looking at 5-String Banjos. I've noticed that the older ones, e.g. late 1800's early 1900's S.S Stewart etc. were all open back. When did the Resonator/Tone Ring appear and who was the first manufacturer. I'm sensing it was Gibson in the early Twenties. Did resonators on Tenor and Plectrum banjos pre-date their Five String counterparts to be heard over Jazz bands?