Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: weerover
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 03:22 PM

Mark,

"...still only a mediocre guitarist after 30 years" - you don't know you're born, mate. I've been at it the same amount of time and I dream of the dizzy heights of mediocrity.

wr

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: TIA
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 07:46 AM

Did she leave gouges on you Mr. Bryant?

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 06:27 AM

I wonder if that Peg Winder was the same gal that I met at a folk club in the 60s - it wasn't my guitar that she ate though......

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 10:02 PM

She's a girl o' my heart, Art. Don't worry, she's not hungry anymore...I hear she just bought a 55 gallon drum of polymer at Safeway.

Art, your posts are one of the most dependable features of the 'Cat. They must call you Fingers...you can always be counted on.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Art Thieme
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 08:54 PM

I waded through the non-music threads just to get here where I absolutely was sure there would be no B.S. !!!

So, that said, I will now give an appropriate music-related answer.

Mark---I hope it solves your problems.

If Peg ate your guitar, she must've been very hungry. I'm certain that you wouldn't want Ms. Winder's death on your conscience---so give her cash for a good meal and she will most likely leave your next and new guitar alone.

As Utah would say, "So I said to my one-legged wife, Peg..."

She had a wooden leg------from the knee up.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Lane
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 07:15 PM

Mark,

I have a Martin in the same price range.... its a fine guitar and sounds as good as my Guild and Taylor... don't let 'em mess with you.

Your problem really is fixable, if you choose to mess with it... again, a posting and pic on mimf.com will dazzle you with the info you get back.

Lane

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 06:29 PM

Thanks for all the outstanding suggestions, folks. I had just about decided on the 55 gallon drum of polymer, but Safeway was out of it and they're not expecting another shipment in for at least a few days. So I think what I'm going to do is put some cocoa butter on it and sit it out on the beach for a few hours. It should tan nicely...

Seriously, I appreciate all the suggestions. (Well, almost all of them--you know who you are.) Funny, I hadn't thought of my $850 guitar as "inexpensive"--I know the store had some $300 Martins that sounded like crap, but this one is pretty and sounds very sweet, no matter what Don says. Yes, I know there are 2 and 3 grand+ models out there.

Anyway, for now, I'm going to live with it, and make up odd stories about how it happened--and fix or replace the winder.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Mooh
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 08:59 AM

Take a look around frets.com where Frank Ford might have something to help you.

The winder of course is quite fixable with a simple reshaping of the offending edges. There are better winders too, like the Planet Waves (a D'Addario brand) which fits mini machines and regular ones and isn't so deep.

Your problem is fairly common on shaped pegheads like F style mandolins but Bruce's advice is good about the finish...get Martin's advice. I think I'd bite the bullet and send it to Martin for repairs, or grin and bare it as is.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Lane
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 01:40 AM

Mark,

Keep the steel wool away from it, for sure. I'm not an expert but I'm in the middle of repairing some damage to my old Guild and I can tell you that there is almost nothing that can't be repaired, but you MUST know how to do it right or you'll make a mess. I just made a huge mistake while trying to touch up some tiny dings, now I have a big repair job.... but I digress.

If this was a Nitrocelulose laquer, it wouldn't be too tough to repair. If its polymer, as Bruce says, that is hard to find. If it hasn't chipped out on the edges, you can sand it, but with very fine paper and a block.... 800 is not too fine. Finising is another story... and I dont know anything about polymer...

BUT - If you want the most definitive source for guitar repair advice - go to www.mimf.com   Its the Musical Instrument Maker's Forum... look for the instrument repair forum... post a pic of it, if you can. You will be amazed at the sound advice that you'll get.

Let me know how you do..

Lane

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 01:15 AM

Your guitar has a catalyzed polymer finish. That's what Martin uses on all of their less expensive guitars now such as the X series and 15 series. It is not lacqer. It is a plastic and it's tough as nails. Unfortunately, it is also a bitch to do touchup repairs on because nothing will dissolve it so it can't be stripped off chemically. I would think your best solution would be to sand the affected area down until all scratches and gouges have been sanded out, mask off the undamaged area, and spray on a new coat of polymer.

Problem is finding a source for the catalyzed polymer finish! It's not commonly used in small shops, only by the big manufacturers like Martin and Taylor. So, none of the luthier's supply websites I've checked (International Luthier's Supply, Stewart Macdonald, Martin's 1833 shop) carry it. I have no idea whether anyone even markets a do-it-yourself portion of the stuff. For all I know you can only get it in 55 gallon drums. I'm sure that's how Martin buys it. Maybe if you sent them an email they could help you.

Bruce


I'd research it further for you, but I'm falling asleep.

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: DonMeixner
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 10:32 PM

Don't worry about it. It's not like you had a Gibson or a Guild. Jeepers man, get over it!

What will you do when something really bad happens like when the other guitarist in your band who insists on dancing around like a loon when he plays backs into your new Martin guitar and stand and knocks the whole mess over and puts no less than eleven gouges in the top there by screwing any hope of Elderly doing an even up exchange for another guitar with a more narrow finger board and neck that fits your hands and fingers better? ( Can you say run on sentence?)

Hmmm?

Don

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: CraigS
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 08:05 PM

The easiest solution to using the pegwinder would be to shove paper inside the slot, or saw some off it with a junior hacksaw. The damage to the finish is probably best filled in with model aeroplane dope. A good book on guitar repair was written by Hideo Kamimoto - try asking at your local library. This will tell you what to do with the wire wool. Do not try to substitute one of those soap-filled pads for scouring pans - these can cause havoc when you try to apply finish after using them.

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 07:56 PM

Yeah, Clinton, but I'll bet you couldn't make neat gouges in perfectly circular arcs on your guitar peghead just by using your fingers!

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 06:49 PM

I think I left mine (bright yellow) at Ricks. Mark, get some pearlescent nail polish, paint it into the circles and tell everybody they're inlays. You can use the leftover stuff on your toenails - no one will ever know. (Then again, you may run around barefoot a lot.)

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 06:40 PM

I agree with Cluin. Hey, I know, Rick, I can just tell people they're REAL crop circles, and they magically appeared on my guitar one night.
Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 06:13 PM

Speak for yourself mate...

I gave all my peg winders away to people who said they'd use 'em about 3 years ago at least... I found just couldn't be bothered to fish the fiddly little thing out when changing strings... it's so much easier to just use fingers...

Fingers were made before peg winders, and you can do more with them!

:-)

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 05:58 PM

smallpiper, once you've used a peg winder, you can't go back.

That'd be like walking to the library to search out song lyrics, instead of coming to Mudcat. It might provide more exercise, but...

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 04:16 PM

What a wonderful collection of quintessentially Mudcat replies (especially Sinsull's)! I will take all of them under advisement, you can be sure.   

Gnomad, do you know that you've just come up with a wonderful new tongue twister: "The block in which the slot sits." I'll make sure to pass that on to my eight-year-old daughter, who collects them. Oh, and I do like your ideas for creatively modifying the device, but if you take a look at the price listed on that link, I think Mr. Happy's suggestion is more realistic.

Mahalo, everybody!

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 11:32 AM

You're supposed to change the strings???????

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 11:19 AM

Mark, put some Old English Scratch Polish on the dings and spend the time you save thereby in playing it.

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 11:15 AM

Jeez Mark...tell people you've been doin' some Hard Travellin!

Rick

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 11:09 AM

Toss out the winder...

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Mr Happy
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 08:28 AM

shove some tissue down the slot

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: gnomad
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 08:00 AM

Being a tightwad I wonder whether the present winder could be modified by partially filling the slot (maybe with synthetic resin) so that it doen't slot down quite so far. Or perhaps by a little judicious sawing down of the block in which the slot sits.

Seem a pity to have to buy a new one before you've properly wrecked the old.

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: smallpiper
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 05:45 AM

For future avoidance of a recurance; ditch the winder and be like the rest of us mere mortals and use your fingers. Otherwise you need to take it to an instrument repairer - varnishes will never match up and at best your loking at disguising the damage.

Subject: RE: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Little Robyn
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 04:28 AM

A temporary fix-it - find a walnut, break it in half and rub the meaty part on the damaged area. It disguises minor scratches tho' it wont fill in deep holes. Otherwise, talk to a woodworker who can sand it down and revarnish properly.
Good luck.

Subject: Help! Peg winder ate my guitar (sort of)
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 04:12 AM

This is both a request for luthier advice, and a WARNING.

For years, I've been using those little plastic peg winders when I change the strings on my guitar. You know, the kind that looks sort of like a New Year's noisemaker, like this. When the one I'd been using went to that place where all picks and capos and peg winders go, I bought a new one. Well, guess what? All peg winders are not created equal. It looked like my old one, but on this one, which is labeled with the Fender brand name, for whatever that's worth, the slot for the peg is deeper than the ones I've used before. (Notice in the picture there's a space between the headstock and the edge of the winder. Not on mine.) But I didn't notice that, so while I was busily cranking away, the edge of the plastic winder was rubbing against the wood on either side of the peg. So, my beautiful one-year-old Martin 000-X1 wound up with what looks like 3 partial crop circles on each side of the headstock. One or two of them are all the way through the finish, the rest are shallower gouges.

What should I do to fix this? And I do want to fix it: dings on the body are part of life, but this isn't "natural folk-type" wear, you know? I have a feeling the answer is going to involve something like fine steel wool at some point...but my woodworking knowledge is very limited, so you'll have to spell it out real simple like.

As far as prevention goes, I'll obviously need a new winder, and this time I'll check the depth of the slot. Yes, I know, I could just be more careful when I use the one I have, and hold it back away from the headstock. But my hands don't always do exactly what my brain tells them to...which is one reason that I'm still only a mediocre guitarist after almost 30 years. (The other is that I don't practice.)

Aloha,
Mark