BS: Only In America...

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: kendall
Date: 02 May 03 - 12:56 PM

Your point is well taken, Peg. Personally, I wouldn't go across the street to see Lawrence Welks house; or him either. My main point is, we will never agree on what is worth spending tax money on or not spending it.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Peg
Date: 02 May 03 - 11:52 AM

re: Lawrence Welk's house, well I personally feel that some funding should be put aside for historical preservation. So many buildings which would appeal based on their history have disappeared, often from disuse and neglect. Now that nostalgia is fashionable again, people will travel a long distance just to look at a SIGN saying such and such happened here...
If communities spent money to preserve their cultural and historical heritage, that could help their tourism industry and bring revenue into the community; in other words such efforts woudl pay for themselves.I know not everyone wants a tourism industry where they live but there are many communities that depend upon this; Nova Scotia would be very poor indeed (no more mining or fishing there) if they had not wised up and realized they'd make a killing in tourism; now it's a hot spot and there are great music festivals, golf outings etc.

of course, I come from Elmira which tore down all sorts of buildings Mark Twain was associated with...as well as beautiful old movie theatres with Art Deco designs. No reason for tourists to want to go there now...lack of forethought on the part of the politicians making the decisions. Cities and towns still fortunate to have their old "bijou" theatres have turned them into showplaces and gotten them on the register of historic laces, thus assuring some funding for their renovation...

I see this as a "big picture" issue that goes beyond keeping one musician's boyhood house standing...if we keep letting these old buildings be torn down (and let greedy developers put up yet another CVS or Gap store), we annihilate our history and culture...and I personally would be happy to have some of my tax dollars go towards such preservation, much more than the billions of dollars worth of bombs recently used in the pointless war in Iraq...or for that matter, the billions being spent on the Big Dig for the privilege of sitting in a traffic jam underground...

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: kendall
Date: 02 May 03 - 05:00 AM

And, of course, the bottom line is "To bring home the bacon."
Doug, are you aware of Bush's sneaking in that huge pork barrel deal for the drug companies in the Homeland security bill? Retroactive protection for any poison pills they may have produced in the past, and limits on any future liability.
Some members of congress wrote in some things under the "sunset" provision, Bush is quietly gutting those.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: CarolC
Date: 02 May 03 - 01:13 AM

Hey DougR... do you know what the remedy for pork barrel politics is? Why, it's John McCain's campaign finance reform, that's what. Without campaign finance reform, the pork barrel politics will never go away.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: DougR
Date: 02 May 03 - 01:01 AM

Kendall: you make an excellent point when you say you do not want your tax money spent to preserve Lawrence Welk's home. I agree totally, and that should also satisfy Carol C. and Ebbie's inquiry. There is so much pork built into appropriation bills both at the federal and state level that it is apalling! That's what I was talking about. Thank you, Kendall, for providing an excellent example.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Amos
Date: 01 May 03 - 09:33 PM

Seems to me that taxes are what we pay for communal efforts that need to be coordinated centrally -- things like national standards, national science efforts beyond the reach of commercial enterprise, national projects of great scope such as the Interstate System and the electrification of the country.

When it turns out that what we ar epaying for instead is the enrichment of Senator Applebum and his hot-dog-stand issues, I get sore too. I am not working for them and don't think I should be forced to.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: MarkS
Date: 01 May 03 - 08:55 PM

Nope - only that taxes should be set at a rate which does not stifle the activity which generates them, and then should be intellegently spent.
Right now I feel we have neither of the above.
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: kendall
Date: 01 May 03 - 08:25 PM

Sure Mark, sure. Everything should be free, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: MarkS
Date: 01 May 03 - 08:23 PM

HI Kendall - Not quite right. Taxes are the price we pay for
WORKING in a free society!
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: kendall
Date: 01 May 03 - 08:18 PM

Doug, I was exaggerating to make a point. Taxes is the price we pay for a free society. Kim C. I should also like to have a say in where my taxes go, but, I'll bet you my cuts would be different from yours, and Doug would have his favorites too. THAT'S why we have government.

Why should I pay to have Lawrence Welk's boyhood home rebuilt? I get infuriated with Tom Brokaw's FLEECING OF AMERICA; the money we piss away on pork barrel projects would build a new school in every city.

If I had my way, the military industrial complex would not be allowed to force un needed, un wanted weapons systems on the Pentagon just to get some politician re elected.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 May 03 - 05:59 PM

"All services are not necessary/not all services are necessary"- but which ones? I don't have small children, but I grant that others' children need to be educated. I don't have a car but I need city buses and taxicabs with streets and roads good enough to travel on; I don't ice skate but I am glad that people in this northern climate have a well maintained indoor rink that provides exercise and a place to learn skills while having a good time; I rarely use the city swimming pool but I'm glad others can; I need subsidized housing to be available for those whose income barely covers their monthly expenses; I need water and sewage services, electricity, phones, municipal offices, libraries, museums, concert halls, a city-owned ski area and lodge...

What don't I need? I need it all.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: CarolC
Date: 01 May 03 - 04:48 PM

You mean "not all services are necessary" I assume, DougR.

What do you mean by "Most states have over-spent"? Sounds like a sound-byte, a la FoxNews. I'd be interested to know what the substance is behind it, if there is any.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: DougR
Date: 01 May 03 - 03:58 PM

Not a bad idea, Kendall, but I seriously doubt we, individually, could afford our own Army. Regarding VA care, I have found it to be excellent here, and the personnel are great.

Carol C: all services, however, are not necessary. Most states have over-spent and some cutting of unnecessary services is probably in order.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Kim C
Date: 01 May 03 - 10:00 AM

I don't mind the concept of paying taxes. But I would like to be able to designate where my tax dollars go, and I don't want to pay for Christie Whitman's limo. She makes enough money to pay for the limo her own self.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: kendall
Date: 01 May 03 - 05:18 AM

Why don't we just stop paying taxes at all, and keep ALL of our money? Just think, we could each have our own army, build our own roads, educate our own children, take a homeless vertern into our homes, go back to having our elderly live with us and, just have charitable organizations look after the poor. That way, we could choose to donate, or not, depending on our level of greed.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: MarkS
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 09:55 PM

Those who feel the federal tax cut is harmful ought to petition their states to increase state taxes. After all, the dollars not taken from state residents by the federal government are still there in the state. Tell your local government you want those same dollars taken from you by them.
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 09:46 PM

Here in Idaho we are responding to the tax break by raising the sales tax 20% as of tomorrow. And there's a sales tax on food here. A hard tax on poor people.

Clint

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: kendall
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 09:17 PM

Carol C. well said.
And, one other thing, while the shrub is congratulating the troops, he is also cutting the shit out of the V.A.
The Veterans Center here is so underfunded and filled with incompetent nincompoops, I no longer got there.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 05:18 PM

Re: public education. A lot of the policies and legislation by the Bush administration and the Republican Congress in the last two or three years are having the effect of putting the states in serious financial difficulty, and this financial difficulty is causing the states to have to scale back the services they provide their citizens. So for every federal income tax break you think you're getting, you're going to have to pay it back at the state level, or experience cuts in essential services.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Kim C
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 04:31 PM

I promise if you all elect me Queen, I'll fix it. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: kendall
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 04:20 PM

Welcome to the real world.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Kim C
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 12:56 PM

Greg and Kendall, all valid points - but weren't all those things happening long before Bush took office? I seem to remember the NPS being in trouble years and years ago. Perhaps I am mistaken but I was under the impression that funding public education was primarily the responsibility of individual states, not the federal government. And if it isn't, then it should be.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: kendall
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 10:56 AM

Kim C. the next time you hear a child who can not speak in whole sentences or spell CAT, or you drive into a huge pot hole on an Interstate (like 81 in PA.) remember that $26.00, and how much it will buy.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 10:49 AM

Amos:I'll try, teach. Them typos can be murder. Now, since when is saying someone has made an idiotic statement a "personal slur"? I didn't say HE was an idiot- are you possibly reading something in there?

Kim: I mean this kindly, (really I do) but do consider for a moment a somewhat larger picture: that this maybe exactly the way this "tax relief" scam was planned- to give a small economic sop to folks immediately to distract them and disguise the fact that in the long run they are getting badly screwed. Is this not possible? Jobs are being cut. Services are being cut. Education funding is being cut. State Aid is being cut. Welfare has been "reformed". The National Parks are in real trouble. At some point the chickens will come home to roost- after the current crop of political hacks are out of office.

If I wanted to be unkind, I might suggest that people (not you specifically) these days seem willing to sell their votes and their children's and neighbors' futures pretty cheaply.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Kim C
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 10:23 AM

Well, Greg, I don't know. I said I can only speak for myself. I wonder how many other working-class people like me are scratching their heads saying, everybody says this tax cut is screwing me, but I'm getting money back.

Indeed, when I compared this year's tax table to last year's, this year's tax in my bracket (which is well under $50K) is quite a bit less.

I will allow that I do not know all the facts, nor can I see the Whole Picture. But speaking strictly from where I sit, I don't feel screwed, for the first time in 20 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Amos
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 09:55 AM

Gregt:

If you really must make personal slurs, learn to spell them keereckly, wouldja?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 08:49 AM

Cute, Mark- but assinine. ;>)

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: DougR
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 01:15 AM

Marks: Perhaps Greg will be the first to write a big check! What do you think? I know, don't count on it.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: MarkS
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 11:15 PM

Anyone who feels they are undertaxed is at complete liberty to take more of their money, write a check to the US Treasury, and send it in!

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 06:55 PM

So then tell me, Kim- and I honestly don't mean to be obnoxious by asking- do you feel this small refund to you personally is worth the mayhem it is causing across the country, the damage its doing to the economy and to working folks and that it's worth saddling the coming generations with a debt they'll never be able to repaypay? and all the while those WITH six-figure incomes and more are doing very nicely, thank you?

The big additional $26.00 which my household got, I'd just as soon they'd kept and restored the cuts to the National Parks, Food Stamps, education funding, health care and on and on and on and on.....

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Kim C
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 01:29 PM

I can only speak for myself, but I'm getting a refund for the first time in 15 years, and I don't have a 6-figure household income. Granted, it's not a big refund. But it's a refund.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 01:13 PM

That's not fair at all, Kendall- the first tax cut legislation did a number of great things:

1. It destroyed the budget surplus.

2. It put the economy right in the crapper, where it remains.

3. It preserved a bunch of rich folks' heredetary fortunes.

4. It preserved countless loopholes for businesses and corporations, so they pay little or no tax.

5. It annihilated a host of useful and worthwhile programs and services.

6. It cost TENS OF THOUSANDS of jobs (yeah, yeah, I know, government jobs don't count- public employees don't need to feed their families, pay the rent, send their kids to college, etc. & they're all a buncha lazy, usless sonsabitches anyway)

7. It screwed poor folks and especially screwed the middle class.

So, what's not to like? The coming one is more of the same. Enjoy!

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: DougR
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 12:25 PM

Wait and see, Peg and Kendall. Wait and see.

I was not criticizing Greg for posting the piece, Peg, merely making a comment after reading the statement about copywrite. Since I am not nearly as well versed in copywrite law as you obviously are, I bow to your superior knowledge.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Kim C
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 12:17 PM

Only in America can a woman get a TV career because she gave the President a blowjob.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: kendall
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 12:07 PM

I know, Peg, but, I can't pick on you.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Peg
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 11:44 AM

that was me talking about the tax cut kendall; and I was being sarcastic.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Wolfgang
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 07:49 AM

Not only in America

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: kendall
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 06:18 AM

Doug, the first tax cut did nothing for the economy. What makes you think another will?

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Peg
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 02:54 AM

Doug:
An appellation of copyright violation for articles which are published on internet sites only extends to full reproduction without proper accreditation. Greg posted this story fully within the "fair usage" set of rules by posting only the first several paragraphs and providing a link to the site of publication.

Now perhaps you'd like to provide a link to an article which supports your side of this issue? or did you just come in here to criticize people based on their voting habits?

me personally, I can't wait to see what an $800 million tax cut and $100 billion bill for the war are going to do for our already crap economy...methinks people better start figuring out the best location for growing their own food...

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: DougR
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 01:19 AM

No Peg, I do not.
Interesting that the story is copywrited and is not supposed ot be rewritten copied or reprinted yet it turns up here on the Internet.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 08:43 PM

Peg, DR doesn't know yet. They haven't told him. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: kendall
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 08:30 PM

I see mistakes and bald faced lies as two very different things. If they were the same, we wouldn't need two different words, would we?

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: GUEST,duuuude
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 05:15 PM

Those whose government never makes mistakes, step forward. The rest of us will be back here calling you liars.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: kendall
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 05:04 PM

America is unique in many ways. For instance, only in America can you see a homeless veteran sleeping in a box in an alley, while a draft dodging liar sleeps in the white house.
Yes, Doug, that applies to Clinton too, but, it dont excuse Bush. At least Clinton didn't even pretend to join, then go AWOL.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 08:43 AM

Peg, you're wasting your time."Of course, that's your right"  ;>)

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Peg
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 02:12 AM

So, Doug, are you saying you approve of this woman's treating her employees in this manner? And that you approve of YOUR tax dollars being spent in this manner?

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: DougR
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 02:06 AM

Bash away, Greg! You're good at it! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Apr 03 - 06:45 PM

Only in America would the BuShites spin and claim this as a virtue while still trashing Hilary Clinton over 'Travelgate', and would the public not give a damn it was happening.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Apr 03 - 01:48 PM

Only in America? I wish that was true!

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: SINSULL
Date: 27 Apr 03 - 12:34 PM

Greg, what makes you think that this sort of abuse of power only happens in America?

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: SINSULL
Date: 27 Apr 03 - 12:11 PM

Can't be! Isn't old Christie just a simple farmer? At least that was her story come tax time. No big surprise here.

Subject: RE: BS: Only In America...
From: Amos
Date: 27 Apr 03 - 11:55 AM

Well, what's wrong with liking soft music, strong coffee, and Barnes&Noble bookstores? I am partial to all three! (Ducks and exits).

A

Subject: BS: Only In America...
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Apr 03 - 09:12 AM

Your Tax Dollars Efficiently at Work- god save the environment.

******

EPA agents diverted to do personal chores for chief

Criminal investigators return rental car for Christie Whitman's
husband, hold table at restaurant

By JOHN HEILPRIN, Associated Press
First published: Sunday, April 27, 2003

WASHINGTON -- Environmental Protection Agency criminal agents
are being diverted from their normal investigative work to provide
security and drivers for agency chief Christie Whitman -- and getting
long lists of do's and don'ts to keep her happy.

EPA agents assigned to investigate environmental crimes have at times
been ordered to perform more personal tasks, such as returning a rental
car for Whitman's husband after a trip or sitting at a table until the
administrator arrived for a restaurant reservation, according to
interviews with several EPA senior managers.

The lists of do's and don'ts instruct agents who chauffeur the EPA
administrator to ensure they rent only a Lincoln Town Car, tune the
radio to smooth jazz or classical music and set the volume low, and
keep an eye out for a Starbucks coffee shop or Barnes & Noble
bookstore...

.

ARTICLE HERE