BS: Remembering Kon Tiki

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: Mark Clark
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 05:39 PM

Kim, I think the prevailing consensus is that Africa is the cradle of human race and Mesopotamia is the cradle of civilization.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: Amos
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 05:24 PM

"What do you think of civilization on Earth?"

"I think it would be a wonderful idea!"

A

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 05:12 PM

It doesn't really matter too much who sailed which way in the ancient world.

But the Kon Tiki expedition lifted people's hearts at a time they needed lifting, and gave a sense that the world was still young and full of wonders, and things could be done that nobody thought could be done, and without high technology.

The thing that always sticks in my mind is how, when they were building the raft, one lot of experts were saying it'd never work because the balsa wood was too soft, and the other lot were saying it wouldn't work because the grass cables weren't strong enough.

And in fact the two weaknesses worked together - the balsa wood was soft enough so it didn't break the cables, and the cables were soft enough so the didn't slice though the logs, and it stayed afloat across the Pacific. And that is a parable for a lot of other things in this life.

I'm sure there's at least one Kon-Tiki song, and probably a few more - more especially up in Norway or Sweden. Hell, they had at least one guitar player on board, as has been pointed out!

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 05:00 PM

Kim, according to the show, the most primative (read oldest) is from an African woman who would have lived near Tanganyika, but interestingly, they located a man in Turkmenistan, who had the most primative DNA outside of Africa, which indicated to the researchers, that his ancestors were where the African DNA split up into the Oriental/Native American, Aryan/Caucasian, and Polynesian/American Indian, as well as several other sub-groups. I believe the show was called "In Search of Eve", and was on the Discovery Channel several months ago. By tracing the gentic markers, and seeing where new ones occur, the maps show the results of incredible migrations, long before we previously thought possible.

I'm sure that other discoveries will refine or change this information, but the documentary was well worth the technical jargon which infused the first part of the show.

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: Kim C
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 04:53 PM

Well...... we watched this program on PBS not too awfully long ago that had all of civilization migrating from Africa. Maybe yes, maybe no. Personally... I don't care either way, and I doubt there will ever be any definitive answer. I think that is one of those things we petty mortals aren't supposed to know.

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 02:41 PM

The really true question - does "civilization" really exist? (yet?) (still?)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: MMario
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 01:17 PM

The true question -did civilization arise from Mu or Atlantis?

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: Amos
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 01:14 PM

Gee, Kim, you sure cut straight to the chase, huh?
I don't know.
A

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: Kim C
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 01:08 PM

Okay, so is the Cradle of Civilization in Africa or the Middle East?

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: kendall
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 12:21 PM

There is more to the story:
That pretty young thing was too young. as we used to say in the service, 14 will get you 30.

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: Amos
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 11:08 PM

In his own reportage, he described being taken deep into family caves where ancient relics lay thathad not been disturbed for generations. He _also_ reported efforts by the natives to drum up some dough by offering recently hacked antiquities, and clearly differentiated between the two. His descriptions of the genuine articles and their discovery seemed quite consistent with a real series of developments.

But I wouldn't be qualified to offer a professional opinion on it! :>)

A

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 09:59 PM

Amos - such a romantic!

DaveO - Quite a few people apparently took the article as implying that Thor "faked" his research. I read it as a subtly different thing, perhaps "anthropologically" more damaging.

By seeking specific things, and letting the natives know what he was looking for, he "contaminated" the culture he was "researching." It was largely the "natives" who "brought him what he asked for" that did the "faking," although he probably failed to use good judgement about the "quality" of the finds he reported.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: Amos
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 08:57 PM

Dang -- but look at this way, Skipper -- the old film is now broken and shriveled, while she...ah, she is young and pretty forever!! If you had left the movie to pursue her, it would have been quite the other way around!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: kendall
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 08:28 PM

I saw the old film when it first came out, and, was so enthralled by it, that I ignored a pretty young thing who had a crush on me. Never saw her again.

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 06:03 PM

Many people seemed to think he claimed his trip proved that the migration had gone east to west by balsa raft. He didn't claim that, although he seems to have thought so, personally. He claimed only that it proved that it could have happened that way. And I'd say it proved that, all right.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: Padre
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 03:54 PM

I remember seeing the movie made of the voyage, around 1950 I think, and imagining how it would be to sail in a ship [or boat] like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: Amos
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 12:04 PM

There's no disproving that he showed that transPacific migration was possible. IIRC there are a lot of similarities between the native craft built for centuries along the South American coasts and the ancient models fouind in the family caves, centuries old, on Easter Island, which Theyerdahl was the first European to be allowed to visit.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: Sam L
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 11:58 AM

I seem to recall a photo in the book of one of the crew strumming a guitar, and it was one of the first things that got me interested in taking it up. It looked like a good thing to do. My memory wobbles sometimes but I think it was the guy who discovered an eel thought to be extinct, when it crawled into his sleeping bag.

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 11:49 AM

I suspect that the new discoveries in tracing human genomes out of Africa has overcome the theories that Heyerdahl postulated.

While the research is ongoing, I recall a wonderful show on the Discovery Channel about the Eve Project in which original DNA from the most primative African sources are being traced to all parts of the globe. As I recall, the American Indians were simply the second to last of several migrations, including one by Polynesians, which traveled down to the tip of South America, and predated the Bering Strait bunch by several thousands of years. This information would turn Heyerdahls theory on it's ear, as he had the Peruvians populating the Pacific and not the other way round.

Still, it was a wonderful adventure, and his book was a birthday present to me in my childhood...

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 11:25 AM

As I recall the Smithsonian article, it seems clear that Heyerdahl forged or faked some of his "discoveries" at Easter Island.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 11:08 AM

We have a great thread on him, from when he passed away. Also, I found this in one of Peter's postings: Thor Heyerdahl's Kon Tiki was rejected by 20 publishers.

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 11:03 AM

A fairly recent "retrospective" article on Thor's exploits was, I believe, in Smithsonian magazine. Unfortunately, I didn't "tag" the article, and it may have been in any of several publications - about a year ago?

The view of professional anthropoligists at the time of his journeys was much different than the popular public view. The author of the article made the apparently incorrect assumption that enough time had passed for an analysis of what real meaning should be attached to his work. Much acrimonious comment followed. The subject was dropped quickly - probably for at least another 25 years.

His journeys were "great human accomplishments," but it remains difficult to know how to place them, and much of his other work, as "anthropological research."

John

Subject: RE: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: Alba
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 10:24 AM

He indeed was a true explorer of the Paths of Ancient Civilisation.
His Ra-II expedition. A Reed boat that was modeled on the boats the Ancient Eqyptians built. He Captained the Boat from Africa to the Bahamas.
I looked up an article that I had read just after his death as a quote in it rang true for me.
"Progress is Man's ability to complicate simplicity" Thor Heyerdahl
Good to remember him Amos.
A

Subject: BS: Remembering Kon Tiki
From: Amos
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 09:45 AM

On April 28, 1947, a six-man expedition sailed from Peru aboard a balsa wood raft named the Kon-Tiki on a 101-day journey across the Pacific Ocean to Polynesia.

Thor Heyerdahl, who was the main driver and organizer of the expedition, and the author of the book, significantly changed the face of anthropology that year, at least as it was perceived by the public. First, he demonstrated the viability of a theory supporting the migration of earlier seafarers out from Asia and Polynesia to the American continents; and second, he created a popular image that has never really faded of a genuine adventurer-scientist. He was also responsible for major discoveries about the metods and culture which produced the amazing totems of Easter Island.

I don't understand why noone has written songs about his exploits.

Regards,


A