Clarinet Advice

Subject: RE: Clarinet Advice
From: M.Ted
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 11:04 PM

I am not a reed player, but have played a lot of Ethnic music, especially Eastern European stuff, and for much of that, the clarinetist is the king--If like being the focus, it is the instrument for you--the downside is that you have to practice a lot, and your chops have to be really good--How good? Check this : Karagouna

Subject: RE: Clarinet Advice
From: fogie
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 12:45 PM

As a bastard child player, and a player of Bb saxes, I can tell you its a hard life out there in the sessions. Both are louder than other instruments, and slower than whistles. C-mel saxes dont sound as natural as the ones of other keys, as if they werent quite in tune you have to work very hard with the embouchure in the higher registers, but if you just happen to get a good one theyre great to play. My C-mel soprano was jumped on by a klezmer player at Sidmouth last year, and he really could wield it- all those laughing squeaking noises fit klezmer a treat, as does a c-clarinet which isnt quite such a bastard child tonally but is more difficult to play than a sax. I really would have liked to play oboe, but found them more difficult to blow. Whatever you end up with will be an exoerience for you!

Subject: RE: Clarinet Advice
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 05:36 AM

Great instrument for traditional tunes. I've had the pleasure over the years of playing and recording with Barrie Marshall and Peadar Long, both great players.The huge range of a clarinet is very useful...youve got a soft bass to a fiddle or a wild high lead, all in the same instrument.
   Agree with Pied Piper, a C clarinet might be your best bet for playing in trad sessions, though it does mean you'll be missing the very useful low D note which is so handy on the Bflat clarinet(the C instrument only goes down to E).
    What I really like is the little Eflat clarinet, a fantstic instrument for outdoor procession bands, but probably a bit scary sitting next to one in a pub.

Subject: RE: Clarinet Advice
From: Pied Piper
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 05:13 AM

Clarinets come in different Keys, if you want to play in trad sessions and klesma get one in C not Bb.
All the best PP

Subject: RE: Clarinet Advice
From: Red and White Rabbit
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 02:36 AM

I also did the transposition from clarinet and sax to whistles which are definitely more tolerated in sessions as is the flute which I have also started to play. Low whistles are my favourite instrument to play at the moment and even though I am not the best player in the world it they are always well received in sessions because they have such a mellow tone

Subject: RE: Clarinet Advice
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 02:24 AM

You'll also find the pawn shops full of clarinets (and saxophones) of various description. Virtually none of these will be playable without a substantial investment in repairs, and many will be so old that they have obsolete key systems.

If you intend to buy a clarinet, or other "band type" instrument, you'd be well advised to buy only from a band/orchestra instrument retailer known to have a good reputation with student and professional musicians in your area.

There are no bargains.

If you know an individual who has an instrument that they are currently playing regularly, and who perhaps is wanting to "move up" to something better, you might be okay; but even here it would be a good idea to have an independent evaluation of the instrument done by someone who plays the instrument and is without a direct interest in the transaction.

You can learn to compensate, somewhat, for small leaks and balky keys; but you don't want to contend with that while learning. An individual who's been playing the instrument he/she is getting rid of may not even realize how bad it is. And a decent new "student grade" will probably cost about the same as a somewhat better one that needs "a little repair work," - without the wait for the shop to get around to it.

Incidentally, for any one other than a "professional" musician, the "plastic" clarinets made by the few recognized manufacturers are excellent, and probably much less susceptible to "knockabout" damage you might see in "session" use than more expensive models. Unless you get into very stratospheric price ranges, they are vastly superior to any of the metal ones you might find. (Yes, they do still make metal ones - but you're not likely to find decent ones on the used market.)

As an off-the-wall suggestion - have you considered oboe?

John

Subject: RE: Clarinet Advice
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 12:30 AM

Additional to John's posting........embouchure on single reed instruments takes time to develop and the only thing that builds the muscles is practice....and that means practicing correctly. Sure, a lot of players were/are self taught and some greats were too and blah, blah, blah. take some advice and go take lessons if you're going to do this. There are a few things you can do to keep from biting through your lip, like folding a rolling paper in a pattern to act as a cushion on your lower teeth (found in almost all pros cases for emergencies, not just the occasional joint).

Proper technique in holding the instrument and covering the holes (different than pennywhistle/recorder) as well as breathing and embouchure can all be learned better and more quickly the right way and that means investing in some lessons.

I would also disagree on the type of clarinet that has been suggested. Some excellent student models are available in plastic and are very decent instruments. When you have developed the chops to play something better, you will probably also have a better ability to select something better. For instance, for many years one of the best was Buffet but you had to play ten to find one....maybe. The Selmer 10 was better but still not preferred by many. There are plenty of others but a high quality student clarinet from a good manufacturer will play easily and give you good service at a reasonable price.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Clarinet Advice
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 08:49 PM

I went the other way--from clarinet in school to recorder/whistle later. The clarinet is a much 'harder' instrument to control, care for and learn fingerings on. It is nice once you are familar with it, but it would be an unusual person who could learn it without professionl help. Lessons from someone who play would be seriously worth it.

The clarinet demands a LOT more of your lips, breath, jaw, teeth..etc...called embrochure to refer to "holding your mouth right". Also, you always need new reeds and occasionally, new cork or maintenance on keys, etc.

You can always enjoy more musical instruments if you have a knack for learning them, but clarinet is not one to take lightly.

Subject: RE: Clarinet Advice
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 08:08 PM

I think a clarinet would be welcome enough - provided the player was at ease in switchingh between D G and A and so forth. Irish music has always been good at accepting new instruments, starting with the banjo and more recently the bouzouki. I've heard a didgeridoo used as a drone instrument very effectively.

I was in a session recently and there was a fella with some kind of electronic clarinet, which he'd set up so it played comfortably in the right keys, and it was a great sound. Sort of Irish Klezmer.

Subject: RE: Clarinet Advice
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 08:05 PM

Good advice from John. Clarinet is very unusual in the Irish-style sessions, but less so in English repertoire, as it was often used, along with bassoon and cello, in the old village bands. Sax ought to be easier; you can get little ones nowadays, I believe, which finger more like whistles and have a smaller sound, blending better with the other typical instruments. I've heard them played occasionally and thought they worked nicely, but unfortunately can't give details. I expect someone else will know.

Subject: RE: Clarinet Advice
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 07:13 PM

Don't expect the transition from recorder and pennywhistle to clarinet to be trivial, although it needn't be too difficult.

The first thing to consider is that any reed instrument demands a little more work from your mouth than your present instruments. It will take a while to learn not to "bite" the reed, while you learn to control the lip (especially lower one), but you do need a good set of lower teeth to support the lip. Hopefully, yours are in good condition, and you intend to keep them for a while.

Expect a period of minor "pain," while you learn reed control. Most beginners bite a sore spot in the lower lip, but that goes away once you learn to use the lip muscles. It's not much different than what string players go through when they lose their caluses and have to "re-form" them, although once you've learned proper lip control you don't have to do it all over after a layoff period.

Reed instruments don't really require "more wind" than penny whistle or recorder, but they do require "higher air pressure." Although the effect is small, the air pressure needed is sufficient, in susceptible persons, to slightly raise blood pressure. A very few susceptible persons of my acquaintance have experienced mild headache (due to higher blood pressure induced by the "blowing") while trying to learn to play. The effect is apparently rare, and usually fades as you become acclimated to what you're doing.

As George suggests, a saxophone is a more "direct" transition from penny whistle in one respect - the saxophone second register is an octave up from its lower one, and you can play a similar two-octave span without "transposing." A clarinet "second register" is one and a half octaves above the lower one, so playing across from one register into another is a little like changing keys when you "cross the gap." Fortunately, since either of these instruments is fully chromatic, "changing keys" (within reason) is not really too difficult.

The "brain barrier" to playing either saxophone or clarinet with others is probably the key transpositions. Saxophones come in Eb and Bb (and the bastard child, the C-melody), while clarinets come in Bb, Eb, (and A, if you can find one). Fiddlers, especially, prefer to play in G, D, and especially A. To play an Eb instrument in true A, you have to manipulate 6 sharps - relative to the "natural tonic scale" of the instrument.

The "gimmick" here, is that the tonic on your penny whistle is "all six fingers down," while the tonic on your reed instrument is "all six fingers plus your right hand pinky. If you use the fingering you're used to on the penny whistle - 6 fingers down, and raise one at a time, on a Bb sax or in the upper register of a Bb clarinet, you will play (almost) a C-minor scale. Adding the needed 1 "sharp" to make it a ture C-minor, and one additional sharp to make it C-major is a relatively "natural" thing on either instrument - so you're really half-way there from the git-go, if you're playing a C-major tune. Generally, the fingerings for one or two additional sharps or flats is not difficult on either instrument. If you get to more than that, you'll probably hear as much "key clatter" as music - at least until you become fairly proficient.

There are some "social considerations." In the "Irish" groups in my area, the normal instruments are fiddle, guitar, mando, penny whistle, bodhran, and hammered dulcimer. Rarely there's a squeeze box or two, and an occasional flute. A clarinet or saxophone might be "tolerated," but would not likely be enthusiastically accepted. A couple of regular squeezers would likely make the difference needed, but a sax (especially) or clarinet would simply overpower the other instruments there in those existing groups. It does, rather surprisingly, require more effort to play softly on most reed instruments than to just "blast away."

The other music styles named would likely be more accepting; and of course, Irish groups with a slightly different "composition" might present no problem.

A better fit with all the types of music mentioned (expept maybe Kletzmer?) might be a keyed (trad or "classical") flute. (And you might be able to play it after your teeth fall out.)

John

Subject: RE: Clarinet Advice
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 07:09 PM

Ethnic players tend toward the Eb Clarinet as opposed to the Bb--

Subject: RE: Clarinet Advice
From: Leadfingers
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 06:34 PM

Its the same old story- You gets what you pay for.You would be far better off buying a GOOD second hand stick than paying the same money for a new one. And checkout any shop local to you that will do a lease
deal on a decent instrument and knock the lease money off the purchase price if you decide to buy.If you can manage NOT to get plastic,go for the African Blackwood-- Cost more but better in the long run. Have fun anyway.I started with a second hand Boosey and Hawkes Regent when they were still made out of real tree wood.Wish I'd still got it.

Subject: RE: Clarinet Advice
From:
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 05:26 PM

Might want to look up the Xaphoons

Subject: Clarinet Advice
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 05:11 PM

I'm thinking about buying a clarinet. I play pennywhistle and recorder. The clarinet appeals because of the range of music it covers: Klezmer, Jazz, Classical, Balkans, Breton etc. I have even heard it used for Irish music, and it seemed to work well. Any advice, Any thoughts appreciated.