BS: disgust and confusion

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Lana
Date: 13 Jul 03 - 08:20 AM

hehe, the funny thing about the soap stealing guy, and thing goes well with your comment that we are all 'adults', is that he is 27 years old. The rest of us in the house are between 19 and 22, he's the oldest and the least responsible.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Jul 03 - 04:22 AM

Hollowfox ~ "we're all old enough to do this without our mommies", "appealing to folks' adult status", "We're all adults here"


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You'd think wouldn't you?

I work in an office with 22 people, 11 of whom do the same job as me. The youngest is 19 and the oldest 50+. We're divided into groups of 6 because that's the way the desks are laid out. One desk is happy, gets on with things, sorts out problems between themselves, asks if they need more work, covers the working day from 8.30 - 5.00. The other two desks are forever at each other's throats, they share out work unequally, they never cover for each other, they're always wandering in late or leaving early, they dump work on others, bitch about the littlest things and cause more trouble in a week than the first table does in a year. The whole office is under a cloud of suspicion, distrust, anxiety and sheer pissed off-edness because they cannot act sensibly like grown rational beings, but rather behave like children in a school yard "you got less work than me, you're never at your desk, you're always off when you're supposed to cover the telephones"....

Now hands up who else recognises their workplace or shared accommodation in that?

Human nature is survival of the self, and NOTHING will stand in the way of that, not notices, not 'little chats', nothing short of actual punishment will deter the survival of the self.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Hollowfox
Date: 12 Jul 03 - 12:14 PM

Lana, just as a precaution you might want to put up a few basic house rules before the next housemate comes in. You know, clean up after yourself, use your own soap, etc., pay for your own long distance phone calls. A short preface to the effect that there have been problems before but we're all old enough to do this without our mommies or something might soften the blow so the newcomer doesn't take it personally. You're probably more diplomatic than I am for the wording, but appealing to folks' adult status even helps on these things in the library where I work. ("We're all adults here. Pick up after yourselves in the staff room." sort of things) Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Lyrical Lady
Date: 12 Jul 03 - 12:43 AM

Clinton...I loved your story. I'm gonna do that with my girls..whom still live at home. I need new dishes anyway! Hooray..problem solved!!

LL

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 01:54 PM

When Herself and I used to share a house with a couple of mates, we always seemed to end up with one bad egg...

The worst (and best solution I thought) was one twit who'd let her dirty dishes pile up until it got to the point that if ya wanted to do ANYTHING in the kitchen ya had to start by clearing a space through her mess... He boyfriend came down a few days before they went home for X-mas and together they managed to use nearly every damn dish in the house... Then they left for 2 and a half weeks, leaving a piled up and festering mess...

Well, herself, me and our 'good' house-mate had already talked... and as Herself and I were going to find a place for ourselves soon anyway, we went out and bought a new set of dishes... We took all the old dirty dishes, put them into green garbage bags, crud and schmuts and gunk and all... tied them shut and put them on her bed... closed the door and never thought about them again... she came back to a STANK that she never got out of her room...

The first time I came home and found her using one of the new dishes I simply walked over... slid her toast (OR whatever) off MY plate onto the coffee table she was eating at... took it into the kitchen, cleaned it and put it away... when she objected I told her, until she could learn to pull her weight and clean up after herself, everything that wasn't specifically hers was off limits...

That was when she stopped talking to any of us... or being home when we were home... or making any noise when she was there... She lived like a ghost and we LOVED it!

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 01:27 PM

Boy, Jenny, you have my sympathy in a very big way. It's hell living in such circumstances. I hope your solution works out.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: JennyO
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 01:19 PM

Little Hawk, you have described my flatmates to a tee (tea? T?). One of them was okay till his brother arrived. In the last few weeks they seem to have developed a pack instinct, and I can't say anything to either of them without ending up having both of them shouting at me. It's a long story, which I won't get into here, but I don't feel at home anymore, and I am not in a position legally to throw them out.

I also agree with what McGrath said. I could pull my head in and protect myself in all sorts of ways, but this is like being under seige, and it is no way to live. There is a possible solution which I am investigating, and it obviously involves not living with them any more. If it works out it will be brilliant. More on that when I know for sure.

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 03:41 PM

oops. Process.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 03:40 PM

Was the soap incident the tip of the iceberg with the roommate? Did he leave dirty dishes in the kitchen sink, clothes strewn about the house, personal posessions in public spaces?

Sharing housing in assigned space like this is a negotiated processess if it's going to work. It would have been better to simply say "Joe, my soap has ended up in your bathroom. Buy your own please, and while you're at it, please clean up after yourself, since we all use this space."

Learn from this experience and make the house rules NOW, before someone else comes along who doesn't know how to conduct him or herself in the shared lodging.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 03:13 PM

" leave the bathroom absolutely empty of such items and bring them in in a carry bag each time you go there and take them with you when you leave."

God, life's too short to get into that kind of stuff. Paint a plimsoll line round the bottles, padlock the fridge... If you can't trust the people you share your life with, you're sharing your life with the wtrong people.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 01:57 PM

I like the way you think, Raptor. :-) (sometimes...) Don't feel too bad, Lana, it could've been Gargoyle who moved in! It'd be just like reality TV...

It's worth remembering that a fair number of young men positively delight in being gross, dirty, and irresponsible, and in taking advantage of and annoying other people. Pointing out their nastiness to them may in this case make them quite happy. This is usually an extension of a war that began in childhood with their parents and teachers and ends up being waged eventually on the rest of the world in lieu of said parents and teachers. They figure the world is oppressing them in some fashion, and they steal stuff in order to get even. They probably also figure everyone else is an #sshole, and deserves it anyway, because they see themselves reflected in the mirror of life, but don't realize it's themselves they are seeing.

It's quite difficult to reason with such people. You can intimidate them with sufficient ferocity, but most of us are not inclined to do that, and I doubt that you are.

The easiest way to prevent freeloaders from using your soap, razor blades, shampoo, toilet paper, etc...is to leave the bathroom absolutely empty of such items and bring them in in a carry bag each time you go there and take them with you when you leave.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 10:22 AM

The laxatives/methyl blue/depilatoryshampoo/pissbeer ideas are funny stories to tell, and the best are really just stories that happened to " A Friend Of A Friend"--In real life, at least here in the Good Ol USA, this kind of stunt ends up on the evening news, and gets the perpetrator prosecuted, with nary a thought about the stolen soap, and all sympathy for the victim--

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: kendall
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 08:49 AM

Someone should tell their parents.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Lana
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 07:01 AM

i'm not to sure about the laxatives idea. i work in the bookstore on campus and i was trying to close the 'convience store' section of it the other day when two kids came in looking for some laxatives to 'poison' their friend with. (their words, not mine) they gave me hell because we didn't sell them and spent ten minutes pestering me about what medicines we did sell and how the could be used to hurt someone. I ended up kicking them out and refusing to sell them anything that they could use to hurt someone.

didn't a guy just get seven years in prison for lacing his wife's food with sedatives?

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 08:06 PM

I remember hearing about the GI treatment for recruits when I was in the Army. A guy who was messy and made it bad for his mates was stripped and scrubbed down with a coarse brush and GI soap (strong stuff for the floors, etc.). Often the threat was enough.
Not really applicable here, but joint action by the group usually solves the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 07:46 PM

I dunno, Kendall....I know some beer that it is hard to tell about...*grin*

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 07:37 PM

My oldest brother worked construction years ago, and one of the men used to bring a thermos of coffee. Often, someone would steal it, so he laced it with a strong laxative. The thief was soon found out, and in addition to being uncovered, he also lost a days pay in the woods!

At a bluegrass festival a guy put his boys up to stealing beer from scattered coolers. That went on for a couple of days, finally the owners took some empties filled them with urine and replaced the caps. Then they put them in the cooler. No more beer disappeared.
It's more fun to outwit a thief than to fight with them, plus, it's easier.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 05:44 PM

Ooh, please tell me where I can get methyl blue - we have a food thief at work and I would LOVE to get revenge on them.... they favour yoghurts and milk shakes so it should be easy enough to spike one....

I don't mind them stealing my yoghurts so much, it's when they took a) a bite out of a colleagues cheese and left the teeth marks, b) took the last scrapes of mayonnaise and put the empty jar back and c) took the whole lunch including plastic box that I got annoyed.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Raptor
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 12:11 PM

Some thoughts :

1- Soap is cheap Anger is costly.

2- It could be worse he might not use soap.

3- Sometimes pissing off idiots will open a can of worms best left closed.

4- Neat cream hair remover for legs in a shampoo bottle will pass for shampoo!

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 12:03 PM

When I was in the good ship COOS BaY we had a seaman who did not believe in being clean and neat. When his bunkmates got enough, they left harsh laundry soap and a wire brush on his bunk. He got the message.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From:
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 11:39 AM

Stole soap but at least he didn't get clean away................sorry!

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 09:43 AM

Janie has a point. He may not have even noted how offensive his behavior was.

If you had sat down quietly with him, explaining that the maid had quit and that he was putatively a grownup [being careful not to flame him] it might have been more effective than outing him. He probably never had to clean up after himself before. Abandoning the other bathroom to him was clearly and completely the wrong answer. It sanctions his behavior without any suggestion of correction.

Even though his behavior was known to all in the house, sometimes a little guidance is better than a slap upside the head. It depends on how dense he is.

Properly done, assertiveness gets the desired results. Aggression results in wars.

Growing up can be a difficult process.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Janie
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 09:23 AM

Glad the situation has managed to resolve itself for now. But was there any good reason to have not addressed your concerns directly with him?

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 07:49 AM

"To Whoever stole my soap:"

Well, it's maybe academic now, since he's split - but it'd have been better to have addressed him by name. And surely the soap wasn't the real issue, it was the last straw.

Mind - "to go home for the rest of the summer" - that sounds like he might be back..."

I think KB was right about it being "the soap" so0 far as he was concerned, rather than so-and-so's soap. And you'd never be able "to do something about the guy's habits" - that's a major project that can take decades and still not succeed. Eliminating a particular bad practice for the time being, that's probably as much as you could hope for.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Lana
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 07:05 AM

well, my problem solved itself. my sign was slipped under my door when i got up this morning with a note from the other female housemate who shares my disgust. According to her, the guy left yesterday to go home for the rest of the summer. So...hopefully now the bathroom will stay clean and shiny and no more soap will become the victim of a brutal kidnapping. ;-)

I just wish I'd been able to do something about the guy's habits...now he will just inflict them on someone else at some other time. poor them.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 06:08 AM

I expect he just doesn't understand soap territorialism at all. To be serious - he probably sees soap as one of those household items that just gets provided (like it was back home). He probably has no real idea that it was your PERSONAL soap - and probably just thinks he has gone off looking for "the soap" and found i & brought it back to the bathroom.
If you steam in too heavily you are just going to end up looking like an uptight twat. Try to forget how important this is to you (and disasociate it from the other negatives you are feeling), and just ask him lightly "did you take the soap from downstairs? yes? oi! that's MY soap, you cheeky swine. Get your own". If you pitch it right then you can make it amusing but at the same time get the message across. Then you can go for putting it in a little soap box, in which case you could even remove the problem forever by keeping it in your own washbag in your own room.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 04:40 AM

I've lived in the real world for many years, and no son of a bitch helps himself to MY stuff! The ignorant self centered creep belongs under a bridge, not in college.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 12:28 AM

Move back with your parents. You are not ready for the "real world" yet.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: LadyJean
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 12:24 AM

I have very sensitive skin, and have to use special soap that is a bit pricey. I had a housemate who didn't understand this. I have plastic travel boxes for my soap. Get one of those, and keep yours in it. It will be harder to steal. It will also last longer.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 08:47 PM

Please! do let us know what works and what you have to resort to......I hate waiting.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Lana
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 08:44 PM

Alright, I put up a sign that says:

To Whoever stole my soap: I do not appreciate having my soap taken. As if it's not bad enough that this bathroom is gross all the time and now you've resorted to stealing.

Soap is not expensive, buy your own.




We'll see how that works. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 08:33 PM

Second McGrath. Kind but adamant unless he bridles overmuch -- then slap him with disgrace or throw a tantrum.

A

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 08:07 PM

I doubt if the blue pee would register on him. Red might be better. "God, I'm bleeding!"

The thing is, he's probably completely oblivious to the fact there's anything wrong. Seriously - most young blokes just don't notice that kind of stuff, and don't pick up on hints and so forth. The same is true for most older blokes too, when the truth is told. You need to be very explicit. Not hostile, just very direct, and persistant.

Hostile is for if it doesn't work.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 08:05 PM

Call elections and create a House Boss in that case. But! Everybody will have to stand behind the House Boss or s/he has NO power to affect anything.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Lana
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 07:59 PM

well, my house is sadly not actually mine, though i wouldn't mind owning it...actually, i take that back, it's too old and fall apart. No, it's college summer housing, owned by the uncaring college i just graduated from.

hehe, i like the idea with the blue pee...however it would just end up on the toilet seat. :-( I'll try putting up a sign. I need to do it for the kitchen anyway. Time some rules were laid down I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 07:42 PM

If "my house" means he's your tenant you either boot him out or give him an ultimatum, and then boot him out if need be. Change the lock while he's out and leave the stuff on the doorstep if need be,

If he's a fellow tenant, maybe tell him Gareth's story, as a warning that you've got some ruthless friends and advisers ready to make his life a misery.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 07:34 PM

shoot,him.hojn

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: kendall
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 07:17 PM

Whatever you do, do it NOW! Otherwise it will continue, and it will get worse. Creeps like him only understand authority.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 06:34 PM

I really like the joke soap idea.

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Gareth
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 06:33 PM

Well no names, no pack drill, and this may not be possible in your specific case, but in the 1970's in a shared flat in Hackney, East London, we had an inconsiderate little SOB, who could not differentiate between his property and any body elses.

Fortunatley he suffered from "piles" - retaliation, his Ointment (Preparation H equivelant) was laced with Tobasco Sauce, and Powdered Chile.

When the screams died down - eventually, he got the message and left.

Just a thought.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Mark Clark
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 06:26 PM

I think you should print out your post above using 14 pt type and tape it to his door. It does a great job of letting him know how you feel.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 06:25 PM

Get some of that "joke" soap that leaves black marks on you when you use it.... You can take it from there.

There's no excuse for either dirt or theft. Especially theft. Toss him out on his ear before other things start disappearing...and if other guys are taking his stuff, that's theft too. Toss 'em all out.

Now if you can't get the "joke" soap, you might find a sympathetic chemistry major.... And for whatever it's worth, a little methyl blue in a soft drink won't hurt you, but it will have you peeing blue....

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 06:17 PM

LOL! Then, kick the bassard out!

Subject: RE: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 06:15 PM

Post house rules... and if he doesn't follow them, start leaving garbage in HIS room!

Subject: BS: disgust and confusion
From: Lana
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 06:12 PM

Color me confused, but I have situation on my hands and I don't know how to handle it.
At the beginning of the summer a guy moved into my house on campus. Within two days of his arrival, the upstairs bathroom had reached such a state of grossness that I stopped using it and switched to using the downstairs bathroom. I was content to let him be messy and disgusting to his hearts content as long as he kept it to the upstairs bathroom.
However, this morning, when I got into the shower, I looked in my shower caddy and discovered my soap was missing. Strange I thought, who steals soap? Later, I was in a hurry to leave the house and the downstairs bathroom was occupied so I ducked into the gross upstairs bathroom to brush my teeth. There, sitting on the sink, was my bar of soap. This guy took my soap from my shower caddy and is using it for hand soap in the other bathroom. Again later, I found out that this has happened to other housemates. One other guy liberated his soap from upstairs, and apparently in retaliation, my soap was stolen.

I don't get it. But mostly, I don't know what to do. I was alright with him dirtying up the bathroom but petty and slightly stupid theft? I hardly even ever see the guy, except in passing, so I don't even know where to begin with asking him about it. Should I put up a sign? Call the college's Residense Life Dept?

-Confused Lana