BS: On the Fire Line

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: GUEST,Sorcha
Date: 15 Aug 03 - 12:31 AM

Got pics!! None of the actual fire because it's mostly out and they wouldn't let get up there even if I could, but have pics of base camp and set up. They're on film so it will take a few days to get them up.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 12:10 PM

I'm currently in Boise. Driving here yesterday I saw the smoke of no less than four good-sized fires off to the North.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 12:27 AM

Here is the front page for NIFC. Used to be called "BIFC" (Boise Interregional Fire Center).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 09:36 PM

And a map

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 09:33 PM

Here are the stats on the Rawhide fire.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 09:32 PM

Mary, check this site and ask your Find button for Montana. You'll have to use a map, probably because I don't know Montana well. Most of the fires have links to the actual statistics on each fire, road closures, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 09:27 PM

I'm kind of disapointed that I don't get to go back up and take pictures but I know that the point of the exercise is to put out the fire, not entertain me. Mary, I'll look.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Dave Swan
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 09:20 PM

Sorcha,

Best of luck to the mister. I hope he doesn't get nailed by a snot drop.

Anyone who is interested can get a good look at the smokejumper's life by reading Jumping Fire by Murry Taylor. See also Young Men and Fire, and Fire on the Mountain by Mc Lean, father and son. It's spooky how closely the Mann Gulch and Storm King fires resemble each other and the Mc Leans tell the tales well.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: mg
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 09:06 PM

Could I have more info on te Montana fires? Anything near Big Fork? Got some friends passing through. mg

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 09:01 PM

Well, folks, no rain, but Rawhide is 95% contained so it looks like I won't be going back up for pics. Can't get there until Saturday.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 07:48 PM

For lyrics in this thread, there are none more germane than these, a great song based on a great book:


"This song is inspired by Norman MacLean's book 'Young Men and Fire' about the Mann Gulch fire, August 1949. When reading I kept coming back to the image of Dodge, who survived the inferno, dying of Hodgkin's disease. Fate, which had saved him at 33, took him at 38."

Cold Missouri Waters
(James Keelaghan 1995)

My name is Dodge, but then you know that
It's written on the chart there at the foot end of the bed
They think I'm blind, but I can read it
I've read it, every word, and every word it says is death
So, confession, is that the reason that you came?
Get it off my chest before I check out of the game?
Since you mention it, well there's thirteen things I'll name
Thirteen crosses high above the cold Missouri waters

August 'Forty-Nine, north Montana
The hottest day on record and the forest tinder dry
Lightning strikes, in the mountains
I was crew chief at the jump base, I prepared the boys to fly
Pick the drop zone, C-47 comes in low
Feel the tap upon your leg that tells you "go"
See the circle of the fire down below
Fifteen of us dropped above the cold Missouri waters

I gauged the fire, I'd seen bigger
So I ordered them to sidehill and we'd fight it from below
We'd have our backs to the river
We'd have it licked by morning even if we took it slow
But the fire crowned, jumped the valley just ahead
There was no way down; we headed for the ridge instead
Too big to fight it; we'd have to fight that slope instead
Flames one step behind above the cold Missouri waters

Sky had turned red; smoke was boiling
Two hundred yards to safety; death was fifty yards behind
I don't know why, I just thought it
I struck a match to waist-high grass, running out of time
I tried to tell them, "Step into this fire I set
We can't make it, this is the only chance you'll get"
But they all cursed me, ran for the rocks above instead
I lay face down and prayed above the cold Missouri waters

And when I arose, like the phoenix
In that world reduced to ashes, there were none but two survived
I stayed that night, and one day after
Carried bodies to the river, wondered how I stayed alive
Thirteen stations of the cross to mark to their fall
Now I've had my say, I'll confess to nothing more
I'll join them now, because they left me long before
Thirteen crosses high above the cold Missouri waters
Thirteen crosses high above the cold Missouri shore


(available as a free MP3 download from http://www.keelaghan.com/keelo7.html)

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Gareth
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 07:04 PM

I salute you, and your comrades - 'Nuff said !

Gareth

"You've heard of the Gresford Disaster,
Of the terrible price that was paid;
Two hundred and forty two colliers were lost,
And three of the rescue brigade"

Full words - Click 'Ere

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 06:38 PM

Sorcha,

When the rigs come in with food, showers, and such, that's called a "Project" fire--it is big enough, moving fast enough to rate the big response with the gear, contracted food service, etc. Prior to all of this arriving the local fire crews work much longer (16 to 24 hours) for the first day or two. By then the decision should have been made to call it a project fire and bring in outside help. And while you're in the local mode, the ready to eat meals (with various names--C-rations, Meals-Ready-to-Eat, etc.) were issued. Sometimes the district would buy packaged meals from restaurants in town (sandwiches, canned drinks, fruit, cookies, etc.) and you'd receive it in some oddball container like a sewn cloth bag. That was years ago--now they probably deliver them in something plastic. This all can vary according to what agency is involved (and in what decade the fire occured and how reliable the memory of the fire fighter!)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 12:39 PM

A little sore at the Seals and Green Berrets looking like wimps comment. The folks in the fire services are often unsung heros but lets not denigrate those serving our country. Alot of those serving in the fire service (volunteers) are military personnel. It's always tragic when one has to put their life on the line for others who often will only complain about their taxes (and I include the fire services and military in that).

Great insight on the fire. Stay safe on your inspection tour and know that my prayers are with you, the Mr. and the folks on the fire line.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 11:41 AM

Sorcha, fascinating, thansk for the details, esp. Have you ever seen Richard Dreyfuss in Always...a romantic version of it all, though the scenes where he flies the slurry bomber through the flames looks damn realistic. It's a good movie.

Anudder Mudder was telling me about a hot one in WA, recently, that a friend of theirs was working on. It is way out in some rugged boonies, darn near inaccessible to all. They did something like a 5,000 acre burn line to help stop it, to no avail. He said it was buring so hot that the wind it created went out in front of it and picked up live trees like matchsticks, throwing them back into the fire. He said they are just waiting for the first snowfall because that's the only way it will get put out.

Stay safe!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 11:06 AM

Some years back, a "good looking" blonde who barely made the height and weight requirements applied for jumper worker at Missoula. Nobody thought that this "little lady" would make it, but she hung in there during all phases of the training (and it ain't easy, folks!). Then came the all-night-dig-and-pack-out.

Carrying a 78 pound firepack, she led the class in the three mile run to the dig site. From 7 pm to 7 am she dug fireline -- three feet wide and down to mineral soil -- with a pulaski (sort of a double bit axe with one blade 90 degrees to the other), without a break except for sips of water. The next morning, she won the run back to the barracks, carrying the same pack. Yeah, she graduated with honors.

This was told to me by a guy in her class -- 6'2", 230 pounds of muscle, ex-Marine scout/sniper. He was impressed.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 10:56 AM

Yes, the women. We don't have jumpers yet (no airport nearby) but there were several female smoke eaters up there older than I am....now that is one tuff woman. I am soooo impressed.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 10:52 AM

My wife's Uncle Al was with the Forest Service for years, including the Smokey Bear fire. He barely missed working on the Man Gulch fire, and that didn't displease him a bit. The stories he'd tell.

And his wife told. Like being buzzed by slurry bombers saluting her husband after he retired. Or sitting out back when a chopper sits down and unloads your husband -- and ruins your drying wash. Or having your two smoke jumper sons "drop in" for dinner with their friends.

And, of course, sitting and waiting....

If you want to get a small, tiny grasp on the subject, visit a smoke jumper site, like the one at Missoula or Redding. To get a REAL idea of the work, go along on an "all night dig and pack out" (the final exam of the smoke jumper applicants). And yes, there are women smoke jumpers.

The Hot Shot crews are just a tough.

These folks make Navy SEALS and Army Green Berets look like wimps.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 02:39 AM

Actually, the Little Big Horn fire is a long ways from us. It was only about 85 here today,but the wind mitigated that, and the Incident Commander (hereafter known as IC) told me that the wind was from the 'right' direction to help control the fire. If it switches, it will drive the fire right into thousands of acres of dry grassland.........3 counties could go up in a matter of hours. Lots of dry cheat grass 3' tall up there........and nothing to stop it. Still a lot of hot spots, esp in the back burn they started, but they'll worry about those next week. Yes, Ebbie it is a whole 'nother world out there. Amazing people, Smoke Eaters/Jumpers. (No, we don't have jumpers or slurry planes. No airport big enough and close enough)

Last week there was a lightning started pasture fire. It went to about 20 miles long and 3 miles wide, but it was accessible to trucks so was completely put out in a couple of days. That one was only about 5 miles as the crow flies from the current one. Mr. was out riding his motorcycle and saw the pasture fire start. He said it was awsome. That one came within 1/4 mile of the main house on the ranch where it started.

The one I went to tonight is up a mountain-side that is not accessible to vehicles except ATV's so the fire fighters have to walk in but it's only about 1/2 mile from the trail head to the fire. Often, I'm told, they have to walk 6-10 miles in. Geeze, what a life. Tuff folks.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: open mike
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 02:26 AM

i am in montana and the word is that the main hiway is closed
due to poor visibility from smoke. yes fire is fascinating,
but be in constant touch with your communication team as there
are some places that you should not be near it. some tragic
mistakes have been made by people who were quite able to fight
and predict fire behavior!! i hear it was 116 degrees in the
shade at the little big horn baqttle field today! thet is
just a ways north of your fire, i think. be careful!!
high temperatures, low humidity and wind are combined
danger factors where fire is concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 02:08 AM

Wow. Thanks for the information. A whole separate world.

Subject: BS: On the Fire Line
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 01:58 AM

Mr. is local Search and Rescue and they are running the Communications Center at the Rawhide fire 40 miles north of me. He was on radio shift tonight so he took me along. This is FASCINATING stuff. Base camp is in a pasture with no shade for miles but lots of prickly pear cactus. The sheer magnitude of inter-agency cooperation is amazing. We have city, county, Park Service, Forest Service, Hot Shot crews, fire crews from the Rosebud Reservation in South Dakota,a Chippewa crew and I don't know who all.

These people are working 13 hour shifts with shovels, pick-axes and a few pumper trucks with very long hoses. They are exhausted and the fire is only 30% contained. There are 2 Bell Ranger helicopters with collapsible 250 gal. water tanks dumping all during daylight as long as the wind is not too bad. Wind today was gusting to almost 30 MPH and they were still flying. They fly through the smoke, get as close to the ground as they dare and SPLOOOSH!!! Round trip to the water bin is about 5 mins. No large lake nearby so they have set up a huge tank. Didn't get to see that or the choppers up close, but next time we go up I will. Next time he's also going to take me to the back side of the mountain so I can see the biggest part of the fire and watch the choppers dump water.

There are 120 fire fighters, 4 Hot Shot crews plus support. I'd guess 175-200 people altogether and the BLM (Bureau of Land Management) has paid a mobile caterer to set up in the pasture. Amazing set up! 5 fifth wheel trailers set end to end in a T formation--complete commercial kitchen, prep/clean up area, storage area, and serving line. There is even an 8' long propane brill. Dinner tonight was fried potates, corn, steak, shrimp, salad bar and cheese cake. Incredible food for in the middle of a pasture in the boonies. One of the trailers has a walk in cooler and there is a refrigerator truck on site running from a generator. The amount of fuel used every day for all the generators, lights, etc. must be staggering.

Caterer is getting paid $20US per person per day......sounds damn cheap to me for what must be a $500,000.00 set up. Each of the 5th wheels must have a full ton truck to pull it. The set up is wonderfully efficient. You can tell that a Real Cook designed it. Got to talk to him too. He gets most of his food directly from the wholesalers and by-passes the retail outlets. I would volunteer to go up and cook, but with the injury/liability issue, I can't. I would LOVE to do this all summer. Wheee, would I be tired. (Actually, I just want the kitchen. I could park it in the drive and build dog trots. I don't think my banker would understand why I need a half million dollar loan.....)

And, this is a 'relatively small' fire even though it's been listed as a Large Incident. Only about 250 acres total. Not a patch on the 36,600 acre one in Montana. They hope to have it contained in 4-5 more days. Even though it is on Federal (BLM) land it has not yet been listed as an official Federal Fire. If it does go Federal, the SAR people and lots of other volunteers will get paid, and the fire fighters pay will go up. It's easily possible to take home $1500/week at a Federal Fire, but they earn their money.

There are shower facilities (if they are not too tired to use them), porta potties, and the crews sleep in little one man dome tents. There are these way cool 8 sided steel frame canvas tents that belong to the Rocky Mountain Fire District. They attach to the frames with velcro and have REAL hinged doors for the Command Tents. I lust after one.......got a smoke vent, windows, and everything. No way are these things going to come down. Well, maybe in a tornado/hurricane......

Pics will be taken if I manage to get back up before the fire is out and base camp gone. Can you tell I was fascinated????