BS: Prophetic Words

Subject: RE: BS: Prophetic Words
From: Hrothgar
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 06:25 AM

"Kill them all. God will recognise his own."

Subject: RE: BS: Prophetic Words
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 03:11 PM

Since Dr. King was 19 when Gandhi died, it doesn't seem likely that they met?

Subject: RE: BS: Prophetic Words
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 09:42 AM

What those people say, McGrath of Harlow, is this: "If our government (Congress) had made available the funds for us to really let them have it over there in Vietnam, we would have won the war". I know people who believe this. They don't really care about how many Vietnamese were killed or would have been killed. Here's the basic gist of their reasoning: "After all they're only Gooks, and there was no way to tell which ones were in league with the enemy anyway. Even little children worked for the enemy."

Sounds kind of like some of the rhetoric we hear today about certain other groups of people.

Subject: RE: BS: Prophetic Words
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 06:51 AM

So there are still people who will say "Martin Luther King is just plain wrong."

Here's a quote from that "plain wrong" speech:

I would like to suggest five concrete things that our government should do immediately to begin the long and difficult process of extricating ourselves from this nightmarish conflict:

1. End all bombing in North and South Vietnam.
2. Declare a unilateral cease-fire in the hope that such action will create the atmosphere for negotiation.
3. Take immediate steps to prevent other battlegrounds in Southeast Asia by curtailing our military buildup in Thailand and our interference in Laos.
4. Realistically accept the fact that the National Liberation Front has substantial support in South Vietnam and must thereby play a role in any meaningful negotiations and in any future Vietnam government.
5. Set a date that we will remove all foreign troops from Vietnam in accordance with the 1954 Geneva agreement.

Part of our ongoing commitment might well express itself in an offer to grant asylum to any Vietnamese who fears for his life under a new regime which included the Liberation Front. Then we must make what reparations we can for the damage we have done.

Now, looking back, if in 1967 they'd done that, wouldn't that have been a far better outcome than what actually happened, after six more years of a disastrous war, in which millions of people of killed and injured, including tens of thousands of young Americans?

Subject: RE: BS: Prophetic Words
From: Kaleea
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 02:17 AM

I had the good fortune to be in attendence when the Grandson of Mahatma Ghandi spoke in a city nearby to me. Dr. King met The Mahatma, & respected him as well as his teachings. They had much in common. They both believed in non-violence. They both believed in God & that all people are the children of God.
   At the recent event, Dr. Ghandi was asked by an audience member "If you were the Pres. of the USA, would you have invaded Iraq?"    Dr. Ghandi said, he believed that his Grandfather would tell us that the answer to violence is not more violence. He would, instead, say to those who hate us, Come, let us sit & talk. Please tell me why you hate us so, that we may understand what has happened. Perhaps we can somehow all live in peace.
   Maybe it would have worked & maybe not. Perhaps if "we" had tried sooner. Perhaps if we did not have father & son presidents who had called Mr. Sadsack Insane of Iraq "brother" after making oil deals for the bush family business with him, putting him into power & selling him arms via the bush family weapons business (according to a 60 minutes expose' back when Pappy was Pres!!!), & then brought war against him?
    How quickly "we" forget.

Subject: RE: BS: Prophetic Words
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jan 04 - 02:03 PM

I can't help but think it's possible. I have to think it's possible.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Prophetic Words
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jan 04 - 01:21 PM

Last night I watched an anniversary documentary, involving commentary from many of the same people that were there during the civil rights struggle and on to the end of ML's life and beyond. Powerful stuff.

Looking back on those years gives me hope for today, strangely enough. Those were such dark days (seeing footage again of the police in Mississippi and in Chicago was more reminiscent of the Nazis than anything else) and yet we survived them and went on to chart some new ground while more and more people came to see the evils of apartheid and injustice.

Dare we hope for the same today?

Subject: RE: BS: Prophetic Words
From: *daylia*
Date: 20 Jan 04 - 09:29 AM

Don, much obliged to you for posting this speech. I'd never heard it before. Last night I forwarded it to an American friend of mine, whose opinions I've come to respect. Unfortunately, the response was pretty disappointing.

"Martin Luther King is just plain wrong" is the story I've been getting.

Too bad. Maybe one day we'll see that he didn't give his life for nothing. *sigh*

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Prophetic Words
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 10:54 PM

Thank you, Don. I had not heard that one. Incredible and truly prophetic.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Prophetic Words
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 10:49 PM

Oh, man. I had read it before but not lately. I've made a document out of it and I'd like to plaster the country with it.

Where are our statesmen today?

But you know, words like his make us even more aware that his murder was probably NOT the act of a lone kook. If you were in power (and not necessarily in the White House) and needed your people to remain compliant, wouldn't you have to get rid of this man?

Subject: RE: BS: Prophetic Words
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 08:28 PM

Thanks for posting this, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Prophetic Words
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 07:34 PM

I listened to WPFW (Pacifica affiliate) most of the day today and not only heard parts of the "Dream" speech put clips of others, as well as interviews with som many folks that I lost count... Unreal!

America got cheated! Big time!

No, make that the world that got cheated big time!!!.....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Prophetic Words
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 05:36 PM

From that speech one sentence leapt out as particularly timely: "Let us not join those who shout war and through their misguided passions urge the United States to relinquish its participation in the United Nations."

And this one from a news link: "Now, therefore, I, George W. Bush, president of the United States ... do hereby proclaim Monday, January 19, 2004, as the Martin Luther King..."

As the saying goes "Hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue."

That speech of Martin Luther King is worth reading and pondering over.

Subject: RE: BS: Prophetic Words
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 05:04 PM

Man, that is fine. This guy writes better than Little Hawk.

Thank you, Don.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Prophetic Words
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 03:51 PM

Thank you Don ...I had never read the speech,and it quite took my breath away.
I was a member of the "Young Communist League" in those days,and it was oratory like that which kept the fire burning....Ake

Subject: BS: Prophetic Words
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 03:42 PM

This morning, NPR played Martin Luther King's speech given on April 4th, 1967 at Riverside Church in New York City. I had never heard this particular speech--Beyond Vietnam: a Time to Break Silence--before. I recommend reading the speech in its entirity. Were you to change a few geographical names, this speech would be startlingly relevant today. These are prophetic words.

Don Firth