BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record

Subject: RE: BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record
From: Nerd
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 01:01 PM

Wait, one more! Clinton did not win a Primary until March, and did not ensure himself the nomination until June. If we had let momentum pick our candidate then, if we had put pressure on those who had not "won a State" (which means nothing in the primaries, only in General Elections) to drop out, we would have had a different nominee and quite possibly four more years of Bush I.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record
From: Nerd
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 12:57 PM

I want to point out that, contrary to the way the media is reporting it, yesterday was pretty good for Dean. It's true that losing the AFSCME endorsement sucked, but then the big labor unions had backed Dean and Gephardt, and didn't seem to be doing that much good at poll times. (Not that we don't appreciate it, IUPAT and SEIU!)

However, the second-place finishes in both states make it clear that Dean is still the most viable alternative to Kerry. Although the media keeps trying to spin Edwards and Clark as the ones who can "win the south," the primary is won by delegate count, not by region. Dean probably got more delegates yesterday than Clark has gotten in all the primaries and caucuses combined so far. Dean remains in second place, and considerably widened his lead over Edwards and Clark yesterday. He has a good chance to further widen it in Maine today.

I think Dean is the best candidate to put up against Bush. Kerry supported Bush's agenda on the war, the Patriot Act and No Child left behind. Now he argues that all of those things are terrible. Dean stood up against them back when it counted, and that won't give Bush the chance to say "well, if you hated my policies so much, why did you vote for them?"

Even if you don't think Dean can win the nomination, I think it's better to keep this contested rather than hand out a nomination early.

Why do we need to keep this contested?

(1) People keep talking about momentum, that "only Kerry has the momentum to beat Bush." But every Democratic nominee always has momentum coming out of the convention. It won't matter then who has momentum now.

(2) The momentum we will have after the convention won't necessarily translate into a victory. Dukakis had a significant lead over Bush I right after the Democratic convention. What has a chance to translate that momentum into a victory is the candidate. Therefore, we should still vote for the candidate we think is the best, not the one with momentum.

(3) Momentum is a media-generated effect, and if we want to have any hope to keep momentum going from now until the general election, we need to keep the media reporting on this race. The only way to do that it keep it a race. The sooner we make one person the sure nominee, the sooner the media will stop covering the "horse race," which is all they care about. Bush is on the ropes right now not because Americans love Kerry, but because there are six Democrats beating up on Bush in the news, and their message is in the news because it's a horse race. If everyone else dropped out and Kerry was bound to win every state by a landslide, the media would just stop covering him.

(3) If we narrow the field down to one candidate at this time, it also helps Bush's re-election team by giving them more time to prepare attacks; as soon as they know who the nominee is, they are free to begin spending their resources. Why not keep Bush guessing as long as possible?

(4) only about 15% of Democrats have voted. Why should we disenfranchise the Democrats in other states just because they vote later? Until the nomination is numerically secured or "clinched," it is unfair to us as Americans for any candidate to drop out if they still have the desire and the resources to run.

Those are just a few of the reasons. But you get the idea. If you like Dean's message, I urge you to support him with your vote, your voice, and/or your dollars.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record
From: CamiSu
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 12:14 AM

Sorry I have been gone so long.

Number one son has been working for Dean for several months. His precincts in NH all came in at over 50% for Dean, with the exception of Benton, where it was 14 of 29 votes. I never heard anything about that fact on any news. He is now in Marshfield, WI, working by himself, and a bit lonely, but NOT GIVING UP!

I heard all the candidates speak at the 100 club evening Sat before the primary. Truly Dean was the best one there, and it was interesting to hear the other candidates "borrowing" from Dean. I also heard him answer questions and the man can think! If everyone could hear him the job wuold be easy. Of course I have had a lot of chances to see what he can do... after all, he was Governor of my state for years...

If your state is voting soon, go out and vote! Listen to what the candidates SAY and choose the best one. That'a what the primary is for!

Subject: RE: BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 09:58 AM

Hell is full of people who, when faced with a choice between the 'right' thing to do and the practical, continually chose the practical. They did the easy thing, they gave in, they went along with the crowd, they let someone else take over for their conscience, and they voted for the Person Most Likely to Succeed.

Don't get me wrong - I think practicality is good, but practicality means giving in, and nothing ever improves when one gives in. Idealism tempered by good judgement about what's possible and being able to envision the 'worst case scenario' is better. There aren't many idealists left. There aren't many people who don't believe what media tells them.

The media... These are the people who can't spell someone's name right, even after you spell it for them and they write it down in their little notebooks. These are the people who can't pronounce 'nuclear'. These are the talking heads you vaguely remember from some defunct television show. Now, they're reading from someone else's script...whose?

They say "Kerry's going to win" after two states out of 50 have voted. Not only are people willing to believe this without wondering what brand of crystal ball the media has, and what business the media and their owners have hyping one candidate over another, but WE VOTE BASED ON THEIR 'PREDICTIONS'.

Practicality is something groups must consider, but I vote as an individual and I don't trust the media and their motives.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record
From: Nerd
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 09:07 AM

LadyJean and Dianavan,

Yes and yes. Sad but true. I'll vote for Kerry this time if need be, and see if he win, and if he can accomplish more as president than as a Senator. But I won't be holding my breath.

And Bartholomew, Politics may be the art of the possible, but when Democrats are told over and over by a group of pundits and party insiders they trust that their hopes are NOT possible, that their only option is to vote for someone they don't like, even when that isn't true and it isn't even wise for their party, then "the possible" has been changed into "the will of the powerful."

Politics is ALSO the will of powerful imposed on the rest.

That isn't supposed to be what politics is in a democratic republic, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record
From: dianavan
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 02:59 AM

...and now for a Canadian perspective.

Isn't Kerry just another cog in the Kennedy machinery? Don't get me wrong, I liked JFK and Bobby, too. The rest of the family seems to be riding the coat tails of a few notable ancestors. Am I wrong or he just another cookie-cutter politician?

d

Subject: RE: BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record
From: LadyJean
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 12:35 AM

When I was 5, I cried over a presidential election. The candidate my parents supported lost.

This morning I found myself in tears again. I will vote for Kerry. Kerry would be an improvement over Bush. Boss Tweed would be an improvement over Bush.

But John Kerry supported the war in Iraq. He voted for the patriot act. He supported Bush's No Child Left Behind bill. He has his excuses for all of these. But they boil down to the fact that he long ago abandoned his ideals to stay in office.

Kerry will make it easier to split the Democratic party. I wouldn't put it past the Bush/Rove slime machine to spread the idea that the difference between Kerry and Bush is the difference between 50% and half. Ralph Nader is raising funds for another run for the White House. Candidate Kerry's record will mean progressive Democrats will vote for Nader, or not vote at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record
From: Nerd
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 11:54 PM

Dean hit a million at 11 PM; that's 47 hours for a million dollars. Reports of his imminent financial collapse were apparently exaggerated, though of course he still has to get the votes.

To that end, the campaign began radio ads in Washington and Wisconsin, and is making TV ads for Wisconsin.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record
From: Nerd
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 03:50 PM

Bartholomew,

I think many people feel Kerry is the status quo.   

I have already said I'll support him, though, and I think most Dean supporters will. I do think there will be a small group of young, left-leaning Dean supporters who will not vote, or who will vote for a Nader type. Hopefully, Kerry can pull in enough moderate veterans and others who hate Bush to take the election anyway.

But you are very wrong about Howard Dean having changed nothing. He made it acceptable for Kerry and all the others to support Universal Health Care and to oppose the war. Until they saw him pick up huge support and 40 million bucks with that message, they wouldn't have touched it with a ten foot pole. Now we hear the pundits saying things like "Kerry is tapping into the great force of the Democrats' anger." What allowed him to do that, or even told him it was there? Howard Dean. Dean got destroyed for it, now Kerry gets praise for the same thing. Every other major candidate has taken from his message, as have Democrats not in this race. Tom Daschle even took up Dean's position that the middle class saw a tax increase under Bush (directly contradicting Kerry, in fact.)

If Dean had not been in this race, it would have been very, very different, and the party message would not be the same. Dean supporters may have to content themselves with that.But, hey, it ain't quite over yet!

Subject: RE: BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 09:52 AM

Howard Dean changed nothing. People matter? Of course; I knew that when I worked for George McGovern. I knew we were right and I knew we would win because we were right. Somehow things did not work out as well as I expected they would. You Deaniacs will learn that lesson soon. I just hope that you don't miss the big picture lesson here - George Bush must be defeated. If John Kerry or John Edwards emerge from the horrible soup that we call "the primary process" as the standard bearer, support him. Don't splinter the party because your precious sensibilities about what is "right" and who is "good" get bruised by the failure of a candidate who clearly cannot control himself well enough to matter when the chips are down.

Kerry is a long time warrior who stands on the right side of most of the issues that matter (to me). Is he perfect? Hell no. Is he a hack? Hell no, again. He is a politician with a real chance to win in November. Edwards should be his running mate. He, too, stands on the right side of the aisle. I think Kerry's longer record of service gives him the edge, and that he should therefore lead the ticket, but it wouldn't matter to me if their roles were reversed.

Remember that politics remains the art of the possible. What is possible is removing the current regime. If Dean isn't able to right his ship and get the nomination, those people who worked for him do him, his message and themselves a disservice by standing aside this fall and validating the status quo.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record
From: maire-aine
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 09:33 AM

I think Howard Dean has changed the political landscape of the country, and hopefully, it will last for another generation. I'm still backing Dean as long as he wants me to. After the convention, I'LL WORK JUST AS HARD FOR WHOMEVER IS NOMINATED. We must deny Bush a second term. It is just that important.

Maryann

Subject: RE: BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record
From: Nerd
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 01:49 AM

Well, Charley, I will have to admit that Dean has lost.

When Dean actually has lost. That may be as soon as February 17th, or he might whup Kerry's butt back to Boston (hey, a guy can dream!)

But you have to admit that our system is kind of a joke. Right now, about six percent of democrats nationally have voted for Kerry, and maybe one each for Dean, Clark and Edwards. With ninety percent of votes still to be cast, we are told over and over again in the media that Kerry cannot lose.

In my book, if we don't continue to fight, we will be letting the media pick the candidate. We might as well ask Sean Hannity to decide who the Democratic nominee is. Still, I grant that this media chatter and buzz is likely to work.

As for the party, it unwisely wants to get this overwith fast, so Kerry can squeak by with no scrutiny. I think this may well result in him getting hacked to pieces by Rove when the time comes. Still, the party puts pressure on endorsers, etc. I know the drill.

So what we end up with is a candidate who was really chosen by a tiny minority of Democrats, then rammed down the throats of the rest, up against a candidate who lost the popular vote but was rammed down the throat of the nation.

Sounds exciting; wake me and the rest of the party when it's time to vote unenthusiatically for Kerry.

It is a deeply corrupt system at this point, and needs to be changed.

In the final analysis, if my fighting for Dean helps Dean, that's great. If not, it will at least help Kerry sharpen up and develop some answers. Americans will be asking a lot of questions when they realize they have nominated someone they know nothing about. Kerry, as I said in another thread, is a smorgasbord of flaws, real and deep flaws far more significant than Dean's cosmetic problems. The right will attack him with ease and great success, and in all likelihood the left will field another Nader, if not Nader himself. Kerry will need to be on his toes, and we Dean people will keep him there.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record
From: Amos
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 01:03 AM

There's a little room on the runway yet...


A

Subject: RE: BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record
From: LadyJean
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 12:27 AM

DEAN HAS GIVEN US ALL THE MESSAGE THAT ORDINARY PEOPLE MATTER. I HAVE NO HOPE THAT HE WILL GET THE NOMINATION. BUT I HOPE HIS PHILOSOPHY LIVES ON.

I will be sorry to see Kerry get the nomination though anyone, including I suspect Mussolini, would be better than Bush. Kerry is a party hack. He'll spend four years making speaches. Dean would make a difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 10:27 PM

Nerb-

At some point you'll likely have to admit the Dean Campaign has tanked. You can then asign blame to a media, the other candidates and their less scrupulous surrogates, the campaign manager, and of course the voters who were taken in by the whole thing. Money does not seem to have been the problem. Dean, however, bears the the ultimate responsibility because he is supposed to be bright enough to navigate successfully through this political morass.

In the aftermath I recommend chocolate as solace, the company of other true believers if they're available, and campaign work for the surviving candidate if you've got the stomach for it. Bush does need to be defeated. And it looks like John Kerry is the Democratic nominee.

Maybe I'll vote for Sharpton in the Maine caucus on Sunday.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record
From: Nerd
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 01:09 PM

The next hour:

$59, 752!

Subject: BS: Dean Shatters Fundraising Record
From: Nerd
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 01:01 PM

Howard Dean posted a message today to his supporters saying that he believes we must win a primary or caucus by Wisconsin (Feb. 17th). He put up a special request for funds to cover ads in Wisconsin.

This was his blog's response to our response:

Between 8 and 9 this morning, you matched the best hour of fundraising in 2004 -- about $27,000. The next hour you broke that record, raising $46,360. Between 10 and 11 AM Eastern, you raised $53,998.

During the hour ending at noon, you raised $55,222. Record-breaking hour after record-breaking hour, the Dean grassroots is responding to Governor Dean putting this campaign in the people's hands.

If you've ever supported Dean or wish to do so in your primary or Caucus, now is the time to step up. Please visit his website at Dean For America to see what you can do to help.

clickie fixed - joe clone