BS: Who are your heroes

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 05:02 PM

Yes, I will also add Gorbachev and Sadat. Both absolutely remarkable men.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: steve in ottawa
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 04:28 PM

Sadat, yes. At the time, I was totally unaware of how brave it was for him to make peace with Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: InOBU
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 08:57 AM

All you sons of bitches out there. Here's to ya., Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 06:01 AM

For me, someone who became a most unlikely hero was Anwar Sadat. I don't know what or who touched this man's soul to the extent that he changed his beliefs and became a man of peace and reconcilliation, but it's almost as though he were taken over by another spirit.

This is a man who must have known he was signing his death sentence on the day he stepped foot onto Israeli soil, and he did it anyway. Would there were more like him at this moment to make the hard decisions that have to be made..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: freda underhill
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 01:33 AM

Gorbachev is a hero of mine, too, Steve. He worked within the system, played a game, maintained status quo, until he was in the only position where he could do something, and he had the courage to do it.

"Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." - Albert Camus

there was a boy in my class that was different, everyone used to laugh at him, his clothes smelt. I met him at our old school reuinion - he was lovely. really smart, a really decent person, and working as a social worker. some people, like him, grow up in really hard circumstances, and instead of spending the rest of their lifes whinging about it, move forward and take others with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: steve in ottawa
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 01:08 AM

Totally forgot: Gorbachev. For letting eastern Europe go. For letting a form of democracy come to Russia. For bringing the world several steps farther from possible nuclear war. For doing the right thing, even though it cost him his power.

As for the Camus quote, I think it's directed more at the people with non-obvious problems, usually mental problems. For example, the guy who gets on the plane even though he's terrified he's going to panic, or the woman who cleans uses that public bathroom, even though she's petrified of germs.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Allan C.
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 04:04 PM

The quotation steve in ottawa submitted reminds me that there are some among us who live with chronic pain every day of their lives. Often, the meds that would eliminate the pain would also render the individual unconscious. Rather than to seek painless oblivion, these people must ride a thin line between tolerable and intolerable pain in order to function more or less normally. (And when I say "tolerable," in many cases this is sometimes a degree of pain that most folks would never want to face even once.) They have every reason to whine. They have complete justification for being irritable. Yet many of them refuse to give in to those aspects of their pain. I consider these people among my heroes.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: steve in ottawa
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 03:10 PM

"Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." - Albert Camus

"I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies; for the hardest victory is over self." - Aristotle

When in search of heroes, we should be concerned more with accomplishments rather than inner struggles, for we cannot well compare the inner struggles of others. - Steve,

And we should keep in mind "Success covers a multitude of blunders." - George Bernard Shaw

So, me, eh?
Ancient? Probably Guttenburg.
Modern? FDR and Lincoln, I guess.
Alive? Difficult. Fresh dirt tends to obscure older successes. Maybe Roy Romanow (first Canadian premier (Sask.) in the 90s to bring in a balanced budget and prove that socialism can take the lead in fiscal responsibility and realism).

Mind you, the person who achieves the most good isn't necessarily the person one most admires or wishes to emulate. That's another story.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,Jawbone
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 12:03 PM

Spider-Man

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 07:08 AM

ced2.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: freda underhill
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 06:24 AM

our own Brucie (Bruce Murdoch) is a volunteer firefighter and has been doing that for years.

okay, bruce, you're on my hero list!

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 05:04 AM

Firefighters, they run into burning buildings when most normal people insinct would be to run out, they could face dangerous chemicals, radiation, bombs etc.They are on duty in all kinds of weathers, work shifts, and many of them are killed and seriously injured just doing their job, all this for not a great deal of money, [they could probably earn more driving a taxi cab]!

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Allan C.
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 10:36 AM

"It's how they play the hand they're dealt."

I do understand the point that was intended. However, whenever I see that expression I am reminded of how important it is for us, whenever possible, to do some of our own dealing. No, we never hold all the cards; but taking hold of some of them and dealing our own hands can be the very best thing we can do for ourselves. It is then that we become our own heroes.


Sometimes, though, this leaves us playing with half a deck.



Sorry, couldn't resist that last bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:53 AM

You are so wrong English Patriot,

I am with Megan L, Jeri above also puts it perfectly, "It's how they play the hand they're dealt."

The youngster's condition, which as you say he has no choice in, is not the issue, it's in his attitude to that condition that he exercises choice. He could just cave in to it and feel sorry for himself. Instead he chooses to show spirit, resolve, courage and heroism, every time he smiles.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:43 PM

ther are a couple of catters i greatly admire. their posts are inspoirational, smart.

yes, they are heroes to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Jeri
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 06:10 PM

I'd have to say Rick Fielding, although it might have embarrassed him. We had a conversation once in which he told me you never want to actually meet your heroes, because you'll be let down. I didn't agree with that. He'd already attained hero status in my mind, and I knew he wasn't perfect. Heroes, for me, are people I know. I didn't worship him - I don't worship anywone - he was my friend. I respected him.

Heroes are heroes, I believe, because of their imperfections, not in spite of them. It's how they play the hand they're dealt. He never fit in the world the way it was very well, so he created his own little corner. He might have kept trying to fit in and wound living in an alley and scarfing dumpster dumplings. Who knows what happens to people who don't fit in when they don't realise they have choices? He found something he loved and put his heart and soul into it, His love for music was like his love for Heather - it just spilled over and splashed onto everyone near him.

There have been, and are, many of Great people, who may have done Great deeds and changed the whole world for the better. None have changed my world as much as Rick. Of course, I'm talking about my personal hero here, and hopefully, everyone's got one or more of those. On the grand scale, I don't know. I tend to view most classic heroic deeds (the 'throwing one's self on a grenade' sort of thing) as simple reactions or glory-seeking.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,An English Patriot
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 05:09 PM

Megan L doesn't understand what heroic means. The kid (poor little blighter, admittedly) may endure his infliction stoicly and without complaint, but he does not do so heroicly. To do that would require a choice, and obviously, in this, he has no choice whatsoever.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 04:07 PM

You've really had a whack of the nasty stick haven't you?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,An English Patriot
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 03:25 PM

Why is that heroic? He has no choice in the matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Megan L
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 03:19 PM

The little boy on Orkney whos skin blisters and peals of every time he is touched. Now that is heroic to suffer each day and get up each morning ready to face a new day.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Merritt
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:20 PM

My Dad - this piece below is probably too long, but it just barely gives one a sense of this man. - Merritt

William Bussiere, 78, Peace Activist
By Gayle Ronan Sims, Inquirer Staff Writer

William Bussiere, a peace activist and social worker who worked to stop gang violence in North Philadelphia and to enact laws for urban renewal, died July 18 at his home in the William Penn Housing Cooperative in Center City.

Mr. Bussiere was born and raised in Woonsocket, R.I., where he excelled in athletics but not academics. He dropped out of high school in 1943 and enlisted in the Marines. He served in the Pacific Theater during World War II with the Marine Corps Sixth Division fighting in battles on Guam, Okinawa and Guadalcanal.

After the war, Mr. Bussiere returned to Rhode Island to complete his high school education. Then, supported by the GI Bill, he earned bachelor's and master's degrees from Springfield College in Massachusetts and a master's in social work from Bryn Mawr College in 1962.

In the early-1950s, Mr. Bussiere was a founder of a national committee of veterans, Enlisted Men for Censure, based in Palmer, Mass., seeking the censure of U.S. Sen. Joseph R. McCarthy.

Mr. Bussiere came to Yeadon in 1958 and later lived in Lansdowne until the early 1970s. He was active in the Democratic Party in Delaware County for 12 years, serving four years as the chairman of the Lansdowne Democratic Committee. He quit as chair when the National Democratic Committee backed Lyndon Johnson and, by extension, more war in Vietnam.

His work with gang members began in 1958, when he was hired by the Friends Neighborhood Guild, a Quaker organization that had a settlement house and community center in North Philadelphia. He later became a director at the Neighborhood Guild, supervising social workers and graduate students in community-improvement efforts, before leaving in 1971.

Between 1975 and 1991, he supervised the training of graduate and undergraduate students in the schools of social work at the University of Pennsylvania, Temple University, and Bryn Mawr College.

Mr. Bussiere actively opposed the Vietnam War and was a founding member of the Veterans for Peace, Philadelphia Chapter. He was active in the civil-rights movement, in efforts to preserve neighborhoods, and worked to maintain housing options for minorities in all neighborhoods.

Perhaps Mr. Bussiere's most lasting achievement was his part in getting the state to install a historical marker at Sixth and Rodman Streets, where W.E.B. DuBois lived while he researched and wrote his landmark "The Philadelphia Negro" in the 1890s.

Charles Blockson, curator of the Charles L. Blockson Afro-American Collections at Temple University, said Mr. Bussiere approached him in 1992 and asked for help getting a marker installed on the spot to honor DuBois. The two men contributed and raised money for the marker, which was installed in 1995.

Mr. Bussiere is survived by his wife of 14 years, Juliana Forsythe Brosch; daughters Elizabeth Bussiere-Nichols, Patricia Bussiere Rigby, and Ann Bussiere; a son, Merritt; and 13 grandchildren. He also is survived by Lillian Stuart, to whom he was married from 1950 until 1981.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Kim C
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 05:33 PM

My dad
My brother
My husband
My friend Howard
My violin teacher
Dolly Parton
Nellie Cashman
Annie Oakley

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 04:46 PM

Martin Gibsons' wife.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,An English Patriot
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 12:38 PM

Cromwell did not slaughter innocents. Those he killed in Drogheda were soldiers, with whom he was fighting. If the army within the walls had surrendered, then all the soldiers would have been spared; but they refused, and so Cromwell behaved as any other General would have done in his situation in that period. The citizens in Drogheda were left alone. The reason he is in my list of heroes is that he pushed through a republic when other men would have stopped well short by making a compromise with King Charles, or else deposing Charles and getting another monarch to replace him, probably a foreigner. Focusing so intently on Drogheda does not give us the full picture of the man especially when Drogheda is so misrepresented.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 09:19 AM

Noah - anyone who could spend 140 years building a boat in a desert has to have character, faith, and a sense of higher purpose.

Of course I'd add Jesus Christ, Moses, my Dad, my Mom, the US Marine Corps, and a few social workers.

And then again all of you lovely little people that make it all happen for the stars of the world *G*

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 09:04 AM

Ordering and participating the slaughter of thousands of innocent people is more than a character "fault" (as the English Patriot puts it). It is mass murder. I haven't got anyone on my list of heros who slaughters people for THEIR cause, or for ANY cause.

Slaughter of innocents is slaughter. It is wanton murder. No one who does that should be on any heros list.

Including Harry Truman, who also ordered the slaughter of innocents in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: el ted
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:49 AM

You have made him sound like a thoroughly good egg EP. I saw a documentary about him on BBC2 recently, and he came out of that rather well too.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,An English Patriot
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:44 AM

I forgot to put my name on the last but one posting. El ted, what point are you making?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: el ted
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:38 AM

Rats! delete my allegiance to George Bush and switch it to Oliver Cromwell.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:36 AM

Kendall, I did not say that Cromwell never shed blood in Ireland 9go back over what I said), so quoting a song from, let's face it, a partisan artist, hardly propels the argument forward. I thought some people might be interested in what Tom Reilly, the Irish author of "Cromwell An Honourable Enemy" said :
"I feel that many historians in Ireland are not ready yet for 'an honourable' Cromwell - nor indeed are the people of Ireland. I thought that I would change the history books and public opinion about this much maligned historical figure by publishing the truth about Cromwell's Irish campaign. The reaction - among the under forties on the whole - was good, but among historians and the over forties it was bad. They can't seem to accept such a fundamental flaw in Irish history ie that neither Cromwell or his men ever engaged in the killing of any unarmed civilians throughout his entire nine month campaign. The facts are there for all to see. But God bless Ireland the past is still the present here and we MUST have our English hate figures - despite the truth. How sad is that?"

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: kendall
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:20 AM

When Cromwell came to Ireland long ago,
He didn't shed a drop of blood you know
And the people started grieving
When they heard that he was leaving
If I knew a bigger lie I'd tell you so.
(The liar as sung by Tommy Makem)

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,An English Patriot
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:47 AM

I make no apologies for including Cromwell in my list of heroes, although, God knows, he had faults aplenty, as his behaviour in Ireland shows. However, it was Cromwell who forced through the execution of Charles I and then ensured that England became the first Republic of modern times. His action showed that monachy was not infalible and ordanied by God but can be overthrown and a republic put in its place. This was a valiable lesson for the future from which the Americans and the French would learn; and both of the American and French revolutions were about tax, as was the English Civil War. Cromwell also chased out the MPs at sword point from parliament after they had shown themselves to be self serving and caring little for the country and its people they were suppose to repesent."Begone: give place to honest men!" A little simplistic, but true never-the-less. How Britain needs Cromwell today to do just that! Cromwell was also a good leader. He introduced the Barebones parliament, which was a failure but a brave attempt to introduce a parlilament that would represent all the people, not just the rich. He introduced a vibrant commercial policy, which the Stuarts benefited from. No-one was persecuted under him. No-one suffered under him. Those that hated him endured him without fear of a midnight knock on the door.

Ofcourse, I'm not blind to his failings. I know he crushed the Levellers (the finest body of men that England ever produced, until the Chartists and the trade union movement came along) and he suppressed the Irish. These, however, should be put into context. Cromwell was a man of his class and the Levellers were a step too far even for Cromwell. A conservative strand ran through Cromwell even though he was busy radicalising England. As for Drogheda, the massacre was of all the soldiers and the Priests. It was not of the whole town's population. I'm not excusing it, but that should be remembered, as should the conduct of war in that time. Cromwell offered the soldiers clemency if they surrendered. They were surrounded by the English. They should have surrendered. Under the rules of combat at the time, by not surrenderring, they signed their own death warrents. This sort of thing happended all the time during the Seven Years War which was running contemporary with this. For those of you who say that Cromwell should not have been in Ireland in the first place should remember that it has always been English policy to be in Ireland. Cromwell was no different. Not an excuse, I know, but true never-the-less. Also, the royalist were recruting in Ireland and Cromwell was worried that Charles II would invade England with French troops using Ireland as a back door. He really had no choice but to go to Ireland and mop up the last Royalist resistance.

Cromwell was a complicated man, but a hero to me. He did more good than bad. Cetainly the founders of the American and French republics studied him closely, which says something about him, surely.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Gurney
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:16 AM

None of those politicians or singers for me.

Douglas Bader. People like that make me feel humble.

And that lad who faced down the tank in Tianaman(sp?) Square a few years ago. And the tank commander who didn't squash him.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Hrothgar
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 05:55 AM

Might have to be grateful to R E Lee, Kendall. If the US Civil War had only lasted a week, there probably would have been guerilla warfare for x number of years. Thanks to McLellan, and Lee to a lesser extent, by the time the war finished nobody wanted to go on with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: darkriver
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 01:57 AM

Deckman,

Thanks for the story of your dad. He's a hero, all right.

Reading this thread makes me realize that there really are quite a few heroes out there.
--Or at least (though it may not be the same thing) many people who can do heroic things.

Although I don't agree with everything she said, I've always admired Mother Theresa's remark:

God does not call us to do great things, but to do small things with great love.

Regards,

Doug aka darkriver

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,Baby Boomer Cowboy
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:17 PM

"NOT me pop--he finally stopped hurting me, but the damage was already done."

Heavy stuff..what a statement!


Davy Crockett and other frontiersmen...when men were men.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: saulgoldie
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 03:45 PM

In no particular order:
Paul Wellstone
Ralph Nader
Mother Jones
Saul Alinsky
Pete Seeger
Golda Meir
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Nelson Mandella
Albert Enistein
Guttenberg (the printing press guy)
Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin,
Thomas Paine, George Washintgon, Abraham Lincoln
me mum, who taught me what it is to be a caring and active citizen of the world.
NOT me pop--he finally stopped hurting me, but the damage was already done.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:54 PM

Rachel Corrie, who was killed by the Israelis, while standing in front of a Palestinian home to prevent it from being bulldozed.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: kendall
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:48 PM

Harry Truman

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Franz S.
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:40 PM

When I was a kindergarten teacher, I di a little project every year where I read my students books about Paul Bunyan, Johnny Appleseed, John Henry, and Pecos Bill. We talked about them, did associated activities, and then I gave them a homework assignment, which was the topic of this thread. Of course they had to go over it with their parents (which was the real point), but I never got any cartoon characters in response. I got Cesar Chavez, Martin Luther King, Jr., and family members. Then I made books out of the reponses and gave each kid a copy. It was one of the most inspiring (to me) thngs I did as a teacher.

My three father (well, one dad and 2 stepdads) were all heroes to me. They all took stands that cost them ,and stuck by those stands. They all took their family responsibilities very seriously. They all taught me values that endure. And they were all a hell of a lot of fun to be around. One of them still is.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:31 PM

Alan Shearer, who ended German-over-English supremacy in football.

Harold Wilson, who didn't enter a war and saved me and my generation from dying in Rhodesia.

Father John Wilkinson, who was honest and planted the seed that opened my eyes and led me to atheism and freedom.

Moira Dobson, a woman.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: ranger1
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:11 PM

My mother and maternal grandmother. Don't have time to tell my mom's story now, am packing for a trip to cross the continent to see her now. My grandmother because she took me in and raised me when my mom couldn't take care of me for a while, due to reasons why my mom's my hero.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 12:53 PM

My wife.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 12:52 PM

Good one, Kendall. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 12:01 PM

In my definition of hero, the hero is always flawed in some major way, yet despite their personal limitations, acts courageously and with integrity when faced with "the crisis" they respond to heroically, in accordance with the essence of their being, and goes against external expectations of them.

As much as I love and admire Paul Wellstone, he doesn't rise to that standard, IMO. Sadly, Wellstone went against the essence of his being and a lifetime of work of great integrity, with his politically expedient vote on the Patriot Act. It wasn't a character flaw that made him do it, it was his political ambition. Which also made him cowardly towards the end of his life. Even though he voted from the essence of his being on the Iraq war resolution (he did vote against it just prior to hitting the campaign trail), he wavered A LOT on that issue and a number of others in the wake of 9/11. So, when the crisis hit, Paul Wellstone crumbled, in my view, while his neighboring senator, Russ Feingold, stood strong. He still does. I want Russ Feingold to run for president. That guy is solid.

The Wisconsin senator, Russ Feingold, was definitely heroic in his lone vote in the Senate against the Patriot Act. I've been tremendously disappointed by Mandela though, and the more time that passes, I'd say the hero of South Africa wasn't Mandela, but Desmond Tutu. And religious leaders, like politicians, rarely rise to that level in my estimation. Archbishop Oscar Romero is another hero of mine. The anonymous (to us) kids in Tianammen Square, or Prague spring. People who take non-violent, unarmed stands in front of the tanks and the guns.

Generals and soldiers (the ones giving the orders and driving the tanks at the dissenters of principle) have rarely been heroic to me, in the same way that conventional politicians and religious leaders are rarely are heroic.

I do think of the emergency responders to 9/11 as heroic though. Nobody could have looked at those buildings and believed they weren't coming down, yet the responders went in anyway. That is true heroism. The group that fought the hijackers in the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania was also heroic. Which is why I believe that the US public responded the way they did to them, but not to the politicians, in the wake of 9/11.

Ralph Nader also comes to mind, especially because he went against external pressures not to run this time, and acted in accordance with the essence of his being, and got in the race. He is a tremendously complicated man, and a fascinating one. And certainly when you look at his life long record of going up against the bad guys without publicly flinching (though I'm sure he did many a time in private) or backing down from his position, he is heroic. He has no equal, that is for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: el ted
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 11:23 AM

George Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 11:19 AM

My wife - must be a hero for loving me! :0) :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,Baby Boomer Cowboy
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:52 AM

All dead:

Hoppy, Gene And Me (Roy Rogers)

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: kendall
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:40 AM

Robert E. Lee? 600 thousand casualties in the American Civil war, and most of them were his fault. If he had been on the union side, it wouldn't have lasted a week.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:31 AM

Biggles, Dan Dare and Joan Baez`s dad>

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:59 AM

Shanghaiceltic,

When I saw "Conqueror" on your profile, I wondered if you were on her the same time as Chris Wreford-Brown. I also know him, but knew his father better.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:56 AM

In addition to the above, there are quite a few actors I admire. In many cases, I know almost nothing about their personal lives, and so I don't know whether they're admirable in all respects, but I admire their work.

Ben Kingsley (I just saw "House of Sand and Fog." Brilliant!)
Ian McKellan
Robert Duvall
Bill Murray
John Cleese
Robin Williams
Robert de Niro
Harvey Keitel
Jeff Bridges
Dustin Hoffman
Meryl Streep
Kathy Bates
Jack Nicholson
Susan Sarandon
Tim Robbins
Sean Penn

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Hrothgar
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 04:35 AM

In no particular order:

Matthew Flinders
Ben Chifley
John Kenneth Galbraith
Arthur Phillip
Charles Sturt
Abraham Lincoln
Robert Edward Lee
Fred Hollows
Thomas More

and a lot more when I think of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 03:03 AM

Far too many to name. But I will say that it was my parents who made it possible for me to recognize the kind of people worth admiring. My mom and dad were my greatest influences, and watching how other people loved and respected them taught me what to aim for in myself and what to look for in others.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Amergin
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:42 AM

my grampa.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,Rama Llama
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:42 AM

Why Kendall Morse, of course, he's so dreamy. Sigh.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Matt_R
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:28 AM

Bob Dylan
Mike Scott (of the Waterboys)
Gram Parsons
Dougie MacLean
Jim Croce
Steve Goodman
Noel Gallagher
Neil Young
John Squire
St.Columcille

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 11:57 PM

Just occurred to me to add Jean d'Arc (Joan of Arc). And Horatio Lord Nelson...although I'm not exactly a fan of Britain's imperial ambitions over the centuries.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: dianavan
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 11:35 PM

Eleanor of Aquitane

Chief Seattle

Will Rogers

Dag Hammersjold (?spelling)

George Washington Carver

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,freda
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 11:25 PM

Lionel Murphy, a judge and later attorney general in Gough Whitlam's labor government, whose impact on the australian legal system brought about profound changes and improvements in our country.

A documentary ("Mr Neal is entitled to be an agitator") was made on one of Lionel Murphy's court decisions, Neal v The Queen (1982) 149 CLR 305. In this case, Justice Murphy made a finding in favour of an Aboriginal political activist's right to political dissent.

he reformed family law to bring in no fault divorces, abolished the death penmalty, and brought in a series of committees in parliament to analyse and vet proposed legislation. He introduced legal aid and lkegal aid centres for low income people, the Racial Discrimination Act, the Trade Practices Act, the Family Law Act, the abolition of the death penalty and Australia's opposition in the International Court of Justice to French nuclear tests in the Pacific. On his initiative, the Australian Parliament established the Australian Law Reform Commission.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Amos
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 10:54 PM

Deckman, thanks for telling me about your Dad. Mine was a hero to me also, among others. I think I would have really lijked your father!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 10:33 PM

Desmond Tutu. Nelson Mandela. The Dalai Lama. Bill Moyers. Idries Shah. Carl Sagan. Martin Luther King. Abraham Lincoln. Mark Twain. Paul Wellstone. Thomas Paine. Sr. Helen Prejean.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: kendall
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 10:32 PM

Sandy and Caroline Paton

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Allan C.
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 07:15 PM

Virtually all of my heroes are people whose names you wouldn't recognize. I listed some of them here. The world is filled with heroic people. One who comes to mind and who should be on my list can be found in this posting by Big Mick. Some heroes of mine whose names you are more likely to recognize would include, (in no particular order,) Dag Hammarskjöld, Mark Twain, Theodore Roosevelt, Ray Charles and John Charles Frémont.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: musicmick
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 06:55 PM

Mitch Snyder

Paul Robson

Edith Stein

Brendan Behan

Itzhak Perlman

George Burns

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 06:44 PM

My Father and Mother - and my four sisters and three brothers agree with me.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 06:27 PM

So many heroes...

Jesus of Nazareth
Bob Dylan
Crazy Horse
Roman Nose (Southern Cheyennes)
Joan Baez
Hiroyoshi Nishizawa
Saburo Sakai
Buffy Sainte-Marie
Stonewall Jackson
Robert E. Lee
James Longstreet
Tomoe Gozen (fictional...female Samurai...based on a historical figure)
Rick Fielding
Chris Smither
Emmy Lou Harris
Ho Chi Minh
Buddha
Lao-Tse (philosopher of Taoism)

And there are others too...

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Peace
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 05:58 PM

I'm partial to folks who do good for others. I respect courage in people, whether it's a single mom raising her children or quiet types who help when they can when no one is looking.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: harvey andrews
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 05:53 PM

Those like many I knew as a boy, including my father. Ordinary non-advantaged men and women who are largely self educated and believe that knowledge is the way out to a better and more fulfilled life.They have endless curiosity and passion, and are a constant surprise. Rick Fielding was a shining example. They enrich your life simply because you know them.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 05:39 PM

Lonnie Donegan.
Cromwell is an interesting example. Quite an acceptable hero for an English orogressive lefty who believes in killing kings, parliament v monarchy etc. Unthinkable to an Irish person, to who Cromwell is the massacre at Drogheda etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Deckman
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 05:17 PM

This might be a long post, but you don't have to read it if you don't 'wanna! I'm going to agree with "Raptor," in that my Daddy is my hero. He always was and he always will be. I'll justify it by giving two examples of his actions:

While my Father was born in the U.S.A., he was born into, and raised within a pure Finnish community. Both of his parents had immigrated from Finlad (Suomi) in the 1890's. As the son of immigrants, he was always sensitive to immigrant issues. He was raised within the "pure" Finn culture. The schools was taught in Finn, the language of the Church was Finn, all the neighbors spoke only Finn. This was a very common story in the midwest (Minnesota) in the early years of this nations' development and expansion. Like people congregrated together.

My Father first encountered the English language when his family moved to Eastern Washington state when he was eight. He was speechless! He, and his brother and his sisters, were stood up against the baseball backstop while the other school children threw rocks at them and teased them because they could not speak english. This left an indelible mark on Dad. He never forgot it. Later, after he was grown up and married and had fathered myself and my older brother, I was given a living example that has guided me.

My father was a wonderful builder of beautiful homes. As such, he built up a strong group of craftsmen friends who helped him: masons, painters, cabinet makers, etc. His mason of choice was a German immigrant named "Billy, the Witchen." Billy had a strong accent to his speech, and he built wonderful fireplaces, chimneys and stone floors.

Close to the end of WW2, I'm guessing 1944, Hilter put out the call to all Germans living abroad to return gome to the Fatherland. Billy returned, with his wife. He served about six months there as a fire warden with a town fire dept.

About 1947, Billy managed to get himself and his family back to America, in the same town he'd left before. But, no one would give him any work as a mason. In those days, and I remember them well, any German was a "Nazi."

At this same time, Dad was giving Billy as much work as he could, but Billy was starving. Also at this time, Dad was invited to join the local "Masonic Lodge," in our home town. On the night that was supposed to be his acceptance, he stood on the floor and rejected the invitiation to join. He said that he refused to belong to an orginization that would NOT give work to a loyal American! He then walked out of the meeting hall. That opened the door for more work to Billy.

I warned you this would be a long posting.

Another quick story. Close to the end of the Korean War, Dad organized a community effort that resulted in everyone building a house for a returning vet. He was now leggless and had a family to support. Everyone donated materials, labor, and we gave "Ken" house keys to a brand new home, land and all.

So, that's just two stories of why my late Father, "Thekney Hjalmer Niemi Knuttlia Rajaniemi Nelson" (yes, that's his real name) is my hero today!

(I warned you this would be long). Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Megan L
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 03:11 PM

My Mum

Paul Robson

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 03:08 PM

Kendall - you sound as surprised as some of us Brits might be if you'd said George Washington!

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 03:07 PM

Oliver Cromwell????

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: kendall
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 02:53 PM

OLIVER CROMWELL!!???

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,An English Patriot
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 02:06 PM

Apart from the historical figure of Jesus, my heroes include Garibaldi, Mandela, Alfred the Great, Martha Gellhorn, John Pilger, Oliver Cromwell, Thomas Paine, William Cobbett, Chomsky, Winston Churchill, and Fidel. I also admire Janos Kadar who introduced a more humane form of Leninism/Marxism into Hungary. There was a lot wrong with communisim; but there was a lot about which I liked, and Janos Kadar made Hungary a pretty decent place to live.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Raptor
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 09:24 AM

My Daddy!

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: kendall
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 08:33 AM

Jesus, Nelson Mandela, Rosa Parks, Pete Seeger who defied the House UnAmerican activities committee by refusing to take the 5th, but rather the 1st during the witch hunts of the 50's.
Utah Phillips who tells it like I see it.

Max Siegel who gave us the Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 07:14 AM

Captain James Cook. One of the greatest of explorers and mapmakers. His charts are still used today in the Pacific as they are so accurate. He also helped to devise the cure for scurvy and assisted Woolf in the taking of Quebec.

Commander Chris Wreford-Brown. A submarine captain who inspired his crew by calm leadership in a number of tight situtations.

Gladys Aylward, a parlour maid who became a missionary in China in the 1930's. Hers was the first biography I read connected with China. I am still amazed at what she did.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 05:34 AM

People like Sally Rooke.

The ordinary folks who plug away, day after day, so their families can have something to eat even though they might go to bed hungry.

Boudica.

Farmers who feed us all.

People like those.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Cats
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 05:15 AM

Rosa Parkes, Tony Benn, The Pankhurst's - all of the women, Desmond Tutu ... try working out which 10 people have had the most prolific effect on your life and then see who your heroes really are.

Subject: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,An English Patriot
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 03:24 AM

So long as one doesn't hero-worship; I've always thought heroes are a good thing. We need other people to look up to, to admire for one reason or another. The quality that distinguishes a hero is courage. It can be the courage of Bob Dylan singing protest songs in the deep South or continuing to front of a rock band despite the hostility of his own fan base. It can be Nelson Mandela facing possible death or spending most of his life in prison fighting a system he hated. Courage is the key. A hero isn't just someone you admire. They have to risk something –life or reputation- to achieve hero status.

I've got a truckload of them. At the risk of sounding insipid, my hero is Jesus. I am an atheist and do not believe in spirituality, which is the antithesis of rationalism. However, I do believe that we need a set of codes, a morality if you will, to live our lives by, and to impart to our children. Any man who encourages us to love our enemies and to despise wealth is the sort of man to whom we should introduce our children. The Sermon on the Mount is the most inspiring philosophy ever been spoken by man.

His courage is an example to us all. To go into the Temple and throw out the money lenders shows a righteous indignation that we should all have when we come across gross hypocrisy. Ofcourse, he became the first martyr to his own cause. To see his values being corrupted by his own followers for the next 2000 years is a tragedy. Even as a rationalist who does not believe Jesus died to save my soul ( something Christians added later on and which Jesus would have had no truck with –they even nicked the idea from a pagan religion for chrissakes), he has something to say to us to this very day. I love Jesus: hate his father.