BS: Meditation CD's

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: Mudlark
Date: 02 Sep 04 - 06:15 AM

I've never used the beat thing but have tried various meditation type tapes. The best I found was Kabat-Zinn...very grounded and direct, talking listener thru a complete relaxation/meditation workout, so to speak. If I can find my original I'll be glad to make you a copy if you'd like to try it. Tried one called "Calm" that drove me up the wall...all seem to be effective, some positive however, and some not. I eventually gave up on all of them, and went back to listening to non-vocal music (except for Hildegard von B., Gregorian chants, etc...very effective), like Scarlatti, Vivaldi, etc. . I trust the way music structures my mind...am less trusting of other brain wave manipulations.

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: mooman
Date: 02 Sep 04 - 04:06 AM

Dear SueB,

Yes, I'd certainly make a distinction between meditating to reach a level of self-awareness or for spiritual reasons and meditating more for relaxation and stress relief. A CD could certainly be a good aid to the latter to help creat a good and conducive environment...essential for any meditation along with correct breathing.

I have a couple of CDs I like for calm ambience...but not the CRI soundwaves type which I've never tried...my favourite is a collaboration between Tibetan nun Ani Choying Drolma and American guitarist Steve Tibbetts called "Cho".

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: GUEST,SueB
Date: 02 Sep 04 - 01:02 AM

To the Queen of Hearts
Is the Ace of Sorrow
Here today, gone tomorrow...

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 10:32 PM

Hesperis - you're supposed to be honeymooning. Get off the computer NOW!

Oh Rapaire??? Look - it is the Queen of Hearts...

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: hesperis
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 09:58 PM

I did try a particular meditation CD several times. I love it, forget what it's called though. Some other people really disliked the "beat" but those that liked it enjoyed a very deep relaxation with it.

Wish I could remember the name of the CD... all I have with me is the unmarked backup copy. Sorry!

It wasn't rain sounds, it was synth exploration stuff. But that's all I remember about it. I did find that I slept better after using it just before sleep. While listening I would feel like my body was asleep but my mind was awake. Interesting feeling.

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: GUEST,SueB
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 03:51 PM

Okay, I'll give you that - the phrase "meditate more deeply than a Zen monk" is just common advertising hyperbole.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that to acheive the same brain wave patterns as someone who is meditating is not the same as actually meditating. I understand that on a spiritual level that must be true. And CD meditation leaves out the intense self-discipline which is part and parcel of spiritual progress.

Can it be meditation if it's not spiritual? Or is it necessary to call it something else> And if so, what to call it?

Thanks for the discussion. --Suzanne

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: mooman
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 03:10 PM

There is absolutely no way you can "meditate more deeply than a Zen monk" with a meditation CD.

I'm afraid that if you want to meditate deeply you have to 1) really want to and 2) do the necessary hard work, preferably under the guidance of someone experienced in meditation. There are less rigorous forms of meditation of course but these still require practice and perseverence.

Peace

moo (Buddhist and long-time meditator)

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: Teresa
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 03:01 PM

I can't answer your question, Sue, having no experience with it, except a few snippets of techno music, which was kind of trance-inducing.

However, in all seriousness, I go for the music I like to put me in a more relaxed mode and I have moved away from the analytical approach.

Good Hawaiian slack-key music, old-timey and English, Celtic, world music for me really does the trick. Sorry, I don't mean to sound flippant.
T

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: GUEST,SueB
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 02:44 PM

Update:

So far, have experienced no urge to run away from home and take up numerology. However, around first week of August, began experiencing varieties of generalized and specific angst.
Related to the techno-meditation practice? I don't know. Lots of angst going around last month. I backed off the techno-meditation practice for a while, starting again now.

Still looking for someone to compare techno-meditation experiences with. Anyone out there?

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: SueB
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 12:31 AM

I looked at the Monroe site, kat, but they lost me pretty quickly with the phrase "growth of human consciousness through personal exploration of profound states of expanded awareness." I'm not doing this so I can *grow*, I couldn't care less about *expanding my awareness*. (I hope that doesn't sound too shallow, but it's true :} ) (And my God, Robin, if it reminded me even remotely of elevator music, I wouldn't subject myself to it for even an instant.)

People meditate for many different reasons, I know. What I'm after are the known physiological benefits and their corresponding mental side effects - lowering my heart rate and cortisol levels, increasing levels of 'good' hormones, feeling more calm and centered, that kind of thing.

What I hear on my CD is primarily the sound of rain. The rain sound masks the tones that are used to induce different brain wave patterns. Paraphrasing from the literature, a tone of one frequency is introduced into one ear, and a tone of a different frequency is introduced into the other. Your brain reconciles the difference by creating a beat pattern corresponding to the difference in the two tones, which acts like a tuning fork - it causes your brain waves
to resonate sympathetically, which is refered to as entrainment. This is how they are able to influence your brain wave pattern to change from your normal walking around beta brain wave pattern to an alpha or a theta or a delta brain wave pattern.

I like the phrase techno-meditation.

On the one hand, a CD induced theta- or delta- brain wave pattern is just like what Huey Lewis was looking for back in the 80's - (I need a new drug, one that won't make me sick, won't make me talk too much etc etc) - it feels good, with no apparent side effects.

On the other hand, I share at least some of Rapaire's paranoia.

Amos' suggestion that I find the corners of the room and attempt to hold onto them for twenty minutes without thinking reminds me of an unfortunate experience I once had after eating some strange dried mushrooms given to me by some people living in a trailer out in the middle of nowhere with five rottweilers on chains in the front yard...

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 07:32 PM

Some of the early so called "meditiation music" that started to come out in the late 70's early 80's used to be very distressing for me to listen to. It had no rhythmic cycles or patterns, and was just random phrases repeated randomly. Used to make me feel extremely frustrated, and I couldn't stand to listen to it. It was popular at one time for elevators, etc.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 07:14 PM

AD/DC: loud and thru the headphones...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 06:34 PM

Sue, you may read more about Robert Monroe at the Monroe Institute.

I am surprised this was moved to the BS section, as it is music-related.

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: Amos
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 06:07 PM

LOL, R!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 03:32 PM

No, I'm not into techno-meditation. Paranoid, perhaps, but I have this thing -- call it the Manchurian Candidate Syndrome.

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: Amos
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 02:53 PM

SueB:

I think he was a prior candidate for spaciness, so maybe it just brings out the less-inhibited version of you that is waiting for release? I dunno -- it is clear that your mileage may vary. Unfortunately, that one sample is the only one I know about.

Or you could try just finding the corners of the room and holding on to them without thinking for 20 minutes.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: SueB
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 02:47 PM

Left his wife and kids to pursue a career in numerology after using the hemi-synch approach to meditative discovery?!?! This does not sound good. Not good at all.

I've found so far that the CD usually but not always causes me to feel very physically and mentally relaxed. My eating patterns seem to be changing, I have suddenly and mysteriously completely lost my inhibition about singing in front of people, and there seems to be more laughter in the house, but whether or not I can attribute this to the meditation CD is not certain. I could as easily claim that astrologically speaking I am receiving beneficial influences from the auspicious juxtaposition of Uranus, Saturn and Jupiter in my sign... I just don't know.

I've never made much headway at unassisted meditating, so this seemed like a good solution - pop in a CD and zone right out. But I do have some doubts, which is why I'm casting out into the Mudcat stream for input. Thanks for the cautionary tale, I'll be on the look out for flaky behavior (but will I know it when I engage in it?)

Subject: RE: BS: Meditation CD's
From: Amos
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 02:07 PM

Sue:

I've often heard about this hemi-synch sound approach to meditative discovery, if that's a useful name for it. I believe originally developed at the Munrto Insititute in Virginia, IIRC. I knew one guy who went off to do the regimen there on-site, and although he seemed very happy with the experience, he did become something of a flake, leaving his wife and two children and pursuing a career involving numerology or something of the sort. So I really don't know what he experienced, as we lost touch.

How would you describe your adventure with it so far?

A

Subject: BS: Meditation CD's
From: SueB
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 01:25 PM

I wonder if anyone has experience with meditation CD's which use sound frequencies to alter your brain waves and put you into a meditative state. I'm currently using a CD from a place called Centerpointe Research Institute - advertising slogan: "meditate deeper than a Zen monk" - and I'd like to compare experiences and thoughts on the subject.