BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: GUEST,Chicky
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 04:25 PM

Amergin:

Osama is looking for a few good men. And the pay is great. 128 virgins waiting in heaven. What a way to go.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 04:13 PM

yep..."folk music" is often about protest against injustice, common folks, sharing, comparing and caring. And thus, a large % of 'folkies' identify with the party and candidates who seem most likely to exemplify and uphold those virtues. Is there any doubt that one party is favored here?

There ARE reasons why big business and certain special interests vote one way and, mostly, a different way than most of us here.

Time will tell if the current winners show any understanding of the needs of all the people. I don't look good in blue, soI am not holding my breath.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 03:45 PM

Ain't it the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 10:23 AM

If Kerry had won this place would have lit up like a drunk on New Years Eve, gimme a break already.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: JennyO
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 09:25 AM

Hi Nathan. Not that there's anything you can do about it, because obviously you are moving here to Oz anyway for very good reasons. But unfortunately, I hate to tell you this, we aren't really any better off politically here - we have Bush's lap dog, little Johnnie Howard, as our PM for the next three years. Reading the comments after the US elections is just like revisiting the way a lot of us felt after our elections a few weeks ago.

Anyway, not withstanding all that, I'm sure you will make a great life here for yourself and your little family. It's a great country with a lot going for it really.

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:42 AM

Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: Amergin
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:32 AM

Larry, I am already moving you fascist pig. I would be moving irregardless of who won, for family reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:02 AM

Amergin- please take Robert Redford (who said he would move to Ireland if Bush wins) and all the other hollywood people who said they would move out of the USA if Bush wins, with you.

If only they would keep their word.

PS:   Michael Moore packed up his cameras and left Florida with no footage of voter fraud.   I guess there won't be a Farrenheit 912.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: Amergin
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 10:57 AM

if bush wins....then it is just as well i am leaving the country.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 10:51 AM

Well, for now we are stuck with this winner take all system that sucks. It has always been that the winner can and often does, ignore the losing faction, regardless of how thin the margin is. I expect that to be no different this year.

And it can certainly be argued that Bush and the Republican party have the biggest mandate to govern in a couple of decades. The Democratic party losses are stunning. I still can't quite wrap my head around the fact that Daschle lost.

But hey, this victory by the Republicans certainly should now concentrate the minds and hearts of the progressive movement in this country, eh? I am happy that the results were much more decisive than I thought they would be. It is a clear victory for the Republicans, there is no arguing that. Fair game to them, they waged a hell of an effective campaign, and won this thing fair and square.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 10:07 AM

With this country as divided as it is (in my opinion, even more divided than during the Vietnam years), I should HOPE that whoever wins not only doesn't gloat but realizes that there is a substantial percentage of the electorate which doesn't agree with his policies as either shown in the past four years or expressed during the campaign.

And do something about it to bring the country's citizens closer together and to enhance our country's position in the COMMUNITY of world nations.

And I'm really tired of the money and greed that's driving everything.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: GUEST,Apollo
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 08:53 AM

I hope people come to the realization, like I have, that the real problem we face in American politics is the two party system and the money that supports it. It can make a good guy into an evil monster or a great leader depending on who is backing him and what the situation is.

The money needs to come out of politics so we can vote for a person instead of a party and the label Conservative and Liberal do not apply.

When one candidate makes outlandish, nasty accusations about his oponent is forced to do so by the two party system. After so much money is pumped into so many ads, the public is stupified and doesn't know what to think.

Some way, some how the money needs to come out of politics.

A

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 03:58 AM

Oh Doug R, you spoiled it!

You're gloating before its even over!

d

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 03:32 AM

Beverley, East Yorkshire.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: DougR
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 03:27 AM

Uh, Super Ted: what planet do you live on?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 03:26 AM

What Election?

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: DougR
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 03:05 AM

Too early to tell, but it appears that GWB may win the election. Fox News projected him the winner of Ohio at least an hour ahead of the other news networks. I really thought Dan Rather was going to cry on camera. Peter Jennings looked a little distraught, and Tom Brockaw sobbed a bit as NBC followed suit. Wolf Blitzer looked dazed, and Larry King asked what day it was, other than that, CNN was pretty normal.

Anyway, if things stack up as it appears now (1:00 A.M. Arizona time)it appears that we might (pending Democratic challenges in Ohio and in God knows where else) have a re-elected president, a larger majority than before in the House and the Senate. That's not gloating, just reporting.

DougR

P. S. It also appears that GWB may win both the Electorial College and the Popular vote. Nuff said.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 02:45 AM

C'mon Ohio!

At least the decision is swinging to Ohio instead of Florida.

Best of all - a big voter turn out.

Good on you folks.

I'm holding my breath.

Am I allowed to say how happy I am that it looks like the women of Washington State are doing quite well and I am feeling proud?

ooh, ooh! Is that gloating?

d

d

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 02:05 AM

There's still 6 states left. It's NOT over! It won't be THAT easy...

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 02:04 AM

Rodney, I appreciate your sentiments and all, but I don't think I can contain myself. At this moment, MSNBC says Bush has 269 of the 270 electoral votes he needs. The writing is on the wall, and I just have to say something about it:

Dagnabbit!!!

There! that feels a little better.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 08:10 PM

Fair enough, Guest/ Cesar.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: GUEST,MarkS
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 07:30 PM

Go ahead and gloat. You will spend the next 3 years, 11 months and 2 weeks defending your candidate regardless who wins!

Look on the bright side. In 2008 we get to have all the fun again!

Lets see =

Democrats will run Hillary
Republicans will run Giuliani

And I will still like Nader!

Mark

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: GUEST,Cesar
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 07:13 PM

If Mr Kerry wins I am gonna be layin low here waiting for him to fulfill all of his campaign promises.

I am going to hold him to the the same standards he held Bush to.

JC

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: jimmyt
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 06:23 PM

OK I gave in about the goat thing, but starting right now I promise I will resist...

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 05:38 PM

Well, Guest/Rodney King, I should think it would be obvious that if either man wins with a razor thin margin, there would be no gloating whatsoever. I didn't mention that paarticular scenario because it didn't seem applicable.

If Bush is adjudged the winner- Hello, Supreme Court!, I would not gloat. If Kerry were to be appointed by the Supreme Court that too would not be a reason for gloating. It would be time to mourn. It would mean that this country has completely lost its way.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 05:04 PM

I think there's a much greater danger of bitching and moaning by backers of the loser than there is of gloating by backers of the winner.

In fact, there's likely to be *no* really clear winner. So be prepared for plenty of controversy over vote fraud, vote theft, etc., in the wake of a close and indecisive outcome.

The best we an hope for is a close popular vote but an electoral-vote outcome that is decisive beyond debate. Hopefully, the electoral winner will be the one with the thin popular-vote plurality (unlike last time).

I'm hoping for an unexpectedly large turnout of the disaffected anti-estabishment types who usually don't participate at all. Not holding my breath, though.

This time tomorrow, it'll all be over -- or not!

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: jimmyt
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 05:03 PM

NOt only will celebrate no gloats, I will take a vow to be celebate of goats. NOw I just want to see if Brucie will take the same vow, even if for only 48 hours.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: DougR
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 04:26 PM

Rodney King: I suspect that you will be proven right. Whoever wins will likely win by a very thin margin. However, if Kerry wins by that thin margin you will not see me writing on the Mudcat that he "stole" the election regardless of what the margin is. Or that he "truly" is not the elected president because the margin is so thin. Kerry will be president.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: GUEST,Rodney King
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 04:06 PM

The caveat of a "decisive" win by either candidate. I think it is pretty clear that there won't be anything remotely close to a decisive win this year: the election will be too close for one or the other of the candidates to win with a majority.

Now, I may be wrong about that, along with all the pundits and pollsters. But as of midnight 02 Nov 04 on the US' east coast, that was how they were describing the likely outcome of the race to the finish: whomever wins will do so by a razor thin margin that will not give a mandate to either candidate.

In other words, it will be like the 1992 election between Bush I, Clinton, and Perot. Only the third column in this race will be the non-voting majority of the electorate, depriving either candidate of a mandate, rather than a 3rd party so-called "spoiler".

The non-voters will most likely be the spoilers of this election, short of a miracle happening with voter turnout. Now, that is possible, but based on recnt past electoral history, when large numbers of new voters were registered, they didn't turn out on Election Day.

This time could be different, I grant you. We will have a larger turnout than in 2000, of that I'm quite sure. But it still won't be enough to beat the non-voters, and declare a mandate for one side or the other.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 03:55 PM

You don't read too well, do you. What caveat?

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: GUEST,Rodney King
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 03:51 PM

Ebbie, the thread title is a genuine suggestion, made by anticipating that the outcome will be a razor thin margin for one candidate or the other, with no majority mandate for either candidate.

Of course, no one can gloat until it's over and a winner declared.

So, are you willing to take the no gloat pledge without caveats Ebbie?

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 03:27 PM

"The point of this thread is to prod people towards realizing that the most likely scenario, based upon all the polls going into the election is that neither candidate will win with a clear mandate from voters" Guest/Rodney King

Not the point of the thread when one looks at the name you gave it.

Besides, how could anyone gloat when no decision has been made?

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 03:19 PM

I will breath a DEEP sigh of relief when it is over....and my post here will be, no matter who wins: "Now we shall see..."

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: GUEST,Rodney King
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 03:12 PM

Ebbie, what if the most likely scenario actually plays itself out, ie that the election is a squeaker? If either Kerry or Bush win by less than a %1 to 2% margin?

The point of this thread is to prod people towards realizing that the most likely scenario, based upon all the polls going into the election is that neither candidate will win with a clear mandate from voters. The nation, in this election, just as it was in the 2000 election, is divided three ways: between the Democrats, the Republicans, and the non-voters who constitute the majority of all voters.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 03:04 PM

DougR, relief without gloating is acceptable to me too. IF Bush should win decisively, I would throw up my hands and have to think about what I want to do or where I want to be for the next four years.

If Kerry wins election decisively, I will be highly pleased with the American people.

However, I won't feel like gloating- even with a Kerry win, it's sobering to realize how very much will have to be done before the bush 'legacy' can be dismantled and any real progress is possible.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: DougR
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 02:53 PM

I would think strong feelings of relief, regardless of who wins, would be acceptable. Just no gloating.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 02:17 PM

Im sure it will be possible on Mudcat....But I cant say the same for the Republican or Democratic parties...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 02:15 PM

I promise not to gloat, no matter who wins.

Is it ok if I have a strong feeling of relief should Kerry win?

clint

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: GUEST,Rodney King
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 02:04 PM

God help us all...

Just when you thought it would be safe to watch television again because the electioneering was over...

I have just read that sweeps month begins on Thursday, and runs until December 1st.

And yesterday, I saw the first Christmas advertising.

The global oligarchy never sleeps.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: GUEST,Rodney King
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 01:33 PM

Doug my man, you shall be the gold standard, then! We should all agree not to gloat, no caveats.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: DougR
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 01:28 PM

I promise not to gloat if Bush wins. If Kerry wins, I will accept it without the caveat Amos included in his last post. I'm not in a postion to judge whether or not the election is "straight" or not.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: Amos
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 01:24 PM

Depends on how straight the election is, Rodney old man.

How's your lawsuit going, by the way?

If either candidate wins in a clear, aboveboard fashion, I will not gloat, nor will I remonstrate about it on these threads.

A

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: GUEST,Rodney King
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 01:22 PM

Ah, but it matters greatly to some here. And some of those will most certainly want to engage in triumphalist gloating if it's Bush, some if it's Kerry.

So this is a Mudcat challenge. No gloating regardless of who wins.

Subject: RE: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 01:19 PM

Well, I know I couldn't possible care any less who 'wins' the US 'election'...

It matters not one whit to me one way or the other...

Subject: BS: How about no triumphalist gloating?
From: GUEST,Rodney King
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 01:11 PM

Is it truly possible that as of November 3rd, we might all just get along, regardless of the winner of the US presidential contest?

No gloating. No in your face triumphalism. Just...peace, and let's move on.

Is it possible for that to happen here in Mudcat?