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Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line?
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Dec 04 - 04:18 PM Nope. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Once Famous Date: 27 Dec 04 - 04:03 PM Do you know Hank Hill, SRS? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Dec 04 - 04:02 PM gargoyle, you can also test your system by visiting Anonymizer.com. Some of us have checked this stuff out. It's why we have the protocols in place that we do and haven't (knock wood!) been hit by any viruses for a long time now. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Dec 04 - 03:58 PM DougR, if I thought I could leave without causing total chaos in my family, I would. But you're mistaken if you think I'm a Texan, I'm not. I'm from Washington State. And it isn't Texas per se that I detest, it's it's damned politics and social attitudes. The landscape isn't so bad once you're used to having no mountains to hold the sky up. And there are some quite decent people around. They just don't happen to be in the political majority at the moment. Any more questions? SRS |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: GUEST Date: 27 Dec 04 - 03:19 PM IF you want to learn more about inter-net protocols, cloaking etc or to test your own firewalls. (I doubt it - since most of the participants in this thread just like to listen to their own chatter)
Visit the following locations, and just play around:
grc.com (gibson research corporation)
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: DougR Date: 27 Dec 04 - 01:17 PM SRS: Just curious. I know no Texan who is as critical of the state as you are. Have you considered relocating? Wyoming? Washington? DougR |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Dec 04 - 01:48 AM In revisiting that original story it seems that the best the murderer (Lisa Montgomery) managed was to use a fake name in her Messenger chat. It isn't hard to set up multiple chat identities, but they would still show the IP address unless she knew how to spoof that. Apparently she didn't. It's probably also a good thing that Stinnett must have had her chat program set to archive the conversation for at least a little while. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 27 Dec 04 - 01:22 AM You are tracebale on line - but if you are stupid to murder someone without covering your tracks, you are very likely to get caught. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: GUEST Date: 27 Dec 04 - 12:37 AM This case has next to nothing to do with "being anonymous online." This woman was stupid enough to contact a woman on a message board, set up a meeting with her, and then murder her at the meeting. Stinnett was on the phone with her mother when the murderer arrived. The cops could see that the last thing Stinnett did alive was answer the door to the woman from the message board. In these circumstances, obviously the police will obtain a warrant for your computer. But if she hadn't murdered Stinnett, she'd have been anonymous. The moral is not "you are always traceable online," but as Chaucer would say, "murder will out." |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 24 Dec 04 - 02:14 AM Then there's Texas. Lowest common denominator as far as "justice" (whatever the highest number of stupid people think is 'fair') and three strikes laws are in place. It's pretty appalling, being called to jury duty. You have to agree to find someone guilty of a crime DESPITE the fact that there might be evidence of a different crime that will compel you the jury and the judge to pass a judgement that isn't sound or fair. They won't tell you about these extenuating circumstances until after that trial but before penalty phase. They do everything the can to describe the situation without calling it "three strikes." On my latest jury foray, I was all the way to the courtroom with a pool of jurors. When asked if I could judge fairly in this situation I more or less said "I think three strikes sucks." I was more polite about it, but they all got the idea, and I was off the jury. I spoke to an attorney activist later who said bluntly "you should have lied." That's justice in Texas for you. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: JohnInKansas Date: 23 Dec 04 - 10:20 PM In most jurisdictions I've observed recently, the "legal" criteria are: 1. The person is capable of understanding the charges. 2. The person is competent to assist in his/her own defense. Beyond those two, you can be loony as suits you, and cannot use "insanity" to avoid going to trial. In some, but not all jurisdictions, the court may consider things like "ability to recognize right vs wrong" in determining "degree of guilt" (culpability) but except in unusual circumstances it's my impression this is applied more often to sentencing than to determination of "guilt." Of course I only know as much as the news tells me. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: MAG Date: 23 Dec 04 - 09:48 PM There is a real interesting book called *Guillty by reason of Insanity* which goes into the question of is there a difference between crazy and insane. The author argues that mental health professionals and not judges should be making decisions about competency. She had some pretty compelling examples. My personal opinion is that when we do away with very sick people we can never study them to find out how they get SO fucked up, not to mention what it does to us. I think there should be life without parole for the criminally insane. Of course I would include rapists and other people who do crimes against persons in that category. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River Date: 23 Dec 04 - 08:19 PM What the flip you talkin about, Clingon? Oops, I mean "Clinton"...Clinton the dork! I can flippin well be amonymous anytime and anywhere, man! Just ask the people that I have "borrowed" thiongs from over the years...like snowmobiles, shovels, cars, booze, cigs, magazines, clotheslines, whatever. Most of 'em got no idea it was me! And the ones that do figger it was me can't flippin prove it! If I can be nonamogoamous in my own town why the flip woudnt I be able to do it on the flippin Net where I am, like, invisible? You are just sprioihding fear and paranoia, man, that's all. You are a big noise in yer own mind that don't amount to a small fart in Blind River, Ontario. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: JohnInKansas Date: 23 Dec 04 - 03:34 PM And my newsrag this morning reports a local man who will be serving 90 days in jail and 3 years supervised probation for taking his computer to a service shop for removal of a virus. The tech reported the "child porn" he saw on the hard drive. The article neglected to mention that he is now a "registered sex offender" whose name will be permanently displayed in the listings on the web and in other published lists, he will be required to confirm his place of residence with local police at least every six months, and will be required to inform the sentencing court within 10 days of any change in residence for the rest of his life. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Bill D Date: 23 Dec 04 - 01:06 PM oh, there are no doubt potentially worse than Bundy out there...math and human nature being what they are. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 23 Dec 04 - 11:58 AM It's not a huge leap from this case to some of the other folks who, if computers such as ours had been available when they were committing their crimes, might have been many times more dangerous and hard to detect. Ted Bundy, perhaps? Some of the other serial killers don't give the impression they would master computer stalking (i.e., Hillside Stranger), but Bundy online would be frightening. I wonder if his equivalent is out there in cyberspace now? Brrrrr |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 22 Dec 04 - 01:27 PM Whatever SrS... I've said all I feel I need to about her specifically... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 22 Dec 04 - 01:17 PM Anonymizer is alive and well, working to block IP addresses from members who send mail out through their system (as long as it is legal, as noted above) and to block the information left behind when you browse. That's the big advantage. If you ever wonder why you get so much spam, look at the wide swath of information your computer leaves at every place you visit. Clinton, the topic started with the story you posted about a woman who thought she was anonymous online, so her sanity IS encapsulated in what your thread is about. Discussing her approach--whether malice aforethought can be sane or insane, sick or only possible in a state of good mental health, is germane to this thread. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Rapparee Date: 22 Dec 04 - 12:49 PM And they'll work fine for ordinary disk scrubbing. But the ONLY way you're ever going to keep anyone from reading at least some of the data on a hard drive to melt the drive down (thermite works well for that). Don't ever assume that you are anonymous or have privacy. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: mack/misophist Date: 22 Dec 04 - 12:08 PM There are free programs available that allow you to "scrub" data on a hard drive, overwriting with ones and zeros for 128 times or more. They work pretty well if there's anything you're that worried about. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Once Famous Date: 22 Dec 04 - 10:05 AM You shouldn't be able to be anonymous on-line. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Rapparee Date: 22 Dec 04 - 09:43 AM I spent ten years as a system administrator. I've installed Internet filters, servers of all sorts, designed networks, installed firewalls, written programs, and have a working knowledge of IP addressing, subnet masking (discussing which will simply kill a party), spoofing, phishing, and cracking, and other stuff. If I've learned nothing else from all this, I've learned this: If the authorities want to track you on-line, they can and will. All you can do is make it difficult for them. Take email and the "Patriot" Act. You go to the local public library to send a nasty email to child. The cops don't need to search the library's servers -- they can check the servers at the library's ISP, or the ISP's ISP's servers. And it's actually quite simple to determine who "owns" a block of IP addresses and to whom a particular one is assigned (with DHCP, at any given moment). If you use a ten-dot private IP address at home or work it still must to through a public address to connect to the Internet and the WWW. Of course, the authorities have to have sufficient reason to go through the trouble. And if you think that any firewall is gonna keep any government from cracking into your computer, guess again. There's even software available to "cops" which can, in effect, "freeze" your OS and data so that it can be examined without changing or erasing it (although erased data can, if worth it, be retrieved as long as the hard drive isn't physically melted down). The drives from the computers at the WTC, for instance, were taken to Switzerland for data recovery after the 9-11 destruction. And the data is being, slowly, retrieved. But such things cost, sometimes very much. And as I say, it's gotta be worth it. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: mack/misophist Date: 22 Dec 04 - 01:40 AM SRS is almost correct. The last time I saw a description of Anonymizer's service - I've never used it - it said his server was configured to strip IP addresses from messages. The FBI was able to get him temporarily shut down a few years ago, so that may have changed. In case you've seen the accusation that Anonymizer facilitates child pornography, the server is configured to reject pictures. Always has been. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 22 Dec 04 - 01:04 AM I don't care what her mental state is... the bitch needs killin'... But that's not what this thread is about... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 21 Dec 04 - 11:57 PM From About.com insane = "Of or pertaining to one who is of unsound mind. A legal rather than a psychiatric term." |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 21 Dec 04 - 09:21 PM Yes, "gatekeepers." People who see situations evolving that can become dangerous and choose to act before something bad happens. Taking responsibility for understanding the potential of a given situation. Perfect illustration, a story in today's Fort Worth Star-Telegram. The link. Posted on Tue, Dec. 21, 2004 Man, 67, arrested in solicitation of 'teen-ager' By Deanna Boyd, Star-Telegram Staff Writer He called himself Chuck and told the 16-year-old girl on the telephone that he was old enough to be her grandfather. But police say the age difference didn't stop the 67-year-old man, whom witnesses said they saw cruising outside Eastern Hills High School for girls, from talking about sex. The teen he was talking to, however, was actually T.T. Trevino, a 39-year-old neighborhood patrol officer, and many of the conversations were recorded. Detectives arrested Noel Edmond Hutchins about 6:30 a.m. Monday at his Hurst home on a warrant accusing him of criminal solicitation of a child/sexual performance of a child. He was being held in the Mansfield Jail on Monday afternoon with bail set at $10,000. Sgt. Paul Ware said police began investigating Nov. 11 after a man pulled up outside Eastern Hills High School in Fort Worth and asked a 17-year-old student whether she wanted a ride. She said no. "He returned a short time later and asked the victim if she'd ever been with a white man," Ware said. "He gave her a phone number and said, 'My name is Chuck, and call me if you ever need a ride.' " Trevino was working at a police storefront near the school when she was approached by a woman who said she had seen the man cruising around the high school and talking to the student. "The concerned citizen said she thought this man gave the little girl his number," Trevino said. "I went out to talk to her. That's how the whole ball started rolling." The 17-year-old girl told Trevino about her conversation and gave the officer the man's phone number. Trevino said she alerted other officers in the area to be on the lookout for the man, then called the number. "He answered right away," Trevino said. "He asked who I was. I told him I had just gotten his number from my friend standing on the corner, and I was told he could give me a ride." Trevino said she hoped the man would drive back to the school so she could identify him and pass on the information to investigators with the Sex Crime, Registration, Apprehension and Monitoring Unit. But Trevino said the conversation took a different direction. She said the man asked her where she lived, and when she told him that she lived a few blocks from the school, he asked her why she didn't walk home. Trevino said she told the man it was too cold. "He alluded, 'You want something more than just a ride, huh?' " Trevino said. She said she alerted the sex-crimes unit about the conversation. When the man began to call her private cellphone frequently, she equipped it with a recorder from a spy store, she said. "Chuck started inquiring about her sexual experience and offering to teach her to become more experienced," Ware said. "It even progressed to the point of instructing her over the phone in sexual acts." Subpoenaed phone records revealed the man's identity and showed that he attempted to call Trevino 44 times over four weeks, Ware said. "I think that shows his predatory nature because of his obsession of calling her," Ware said. Investigators are continuing to review the records for other possible victims, he said. Trevino said the man would at times avoid talking about meeting with her, saying, "Life is too short. We shouldn't rush into things." Playing a teen-ager was a gamble that paid off, Trevino said. "I tried to giggle a lot and seem shy," Trevino said. "I have no experience doing this, but for some reason, he believed I was 16." Ware said: "She was concerned. She saw the danger that existed with him trying to pick up girls at the high school. I truly commend her for the excellent work she did." Trevino gave much of the credit to the woman who brought the man's strange behavior to her attention. "Had the concerned citizen not come in and said, 'Hey, there's a guy driving around the school trying to pick up female students,' I would have never acted on it," Trevino said. "We would have never known." SRS |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: JohnInKansas Date: 21 Dec 04 - 08:40 PM You don't have to be a "dummy" to get caught: Lowe's Hardware Hacker Gets Nine Years (By Associated Press, December 15, 2004, posted at eWeek.com) Brian Salcedo, 21, of Whitmore Lake, Mich., pleaded guilty in August to conspiracy and other hacking charges. Salcedo's sentence, imposed by U.S. District Judge Lacy Thornburg, exceeds that given to the hacker Kevin Mitnick, who spent more than 5 years behind bars, according to a Justice Department Web site that tracks cyber-crime prosecutions. Two other men are awaiting sentencing in the Lowe's case. One of them, Adam Timmins, became one of the first people convicted of "wardriving," in which hackers go around with an antenna, searching for vulnerable wireless Internet connections. Prosecutors said the three men tapped into the wireless network of a Lowe's store in Southfield, Mich., used that connection to enter the chain's central computer system in North Wilkesboro, N.C., and installed a program to capture credit card information. Lowe's officials said the men did not obtain any such information. The case was prosecuted in Charlotte because it is home to an FBI cyber-crime task force. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: MaineDog Date: 21 Dec 04 - 08:39 PM Gatekeepers? In a free society, who can be a gatekeeper? The people who end up doing these things are mostly isolated, they do not seek help, or medical care, or interactions with anyone who could intervene. If a spouse tries to stop them, the spouse is likely to be branded abusive, or worse, and raked over the coals by our perverted judicial system. MD |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: freightdawg Date: 21 Dec 04 - 08:34 PM I agree the woman was sick, from that standpoint that her deed was so foul that only a sick person could do it. However, her actions provide a look at someone who could create an alias, give her husband a false story, manipulate the victim into letting her get close, create a false story as to the birth of the child, etc. This murder was contemplated, in full, for a long period of time. It was not the act of passion, or momentary or even long term psychosis. She might be ill, but she should not be protected from full prosecution to the greatest extent possible (and if that means the death penalty, so be it). Andrea Yates was another example completely. She claimed to hear voices, and her husband should be behind bars for what he did to her, and for what he kept from her. This woman was as cold and calculating as any serial killer that ever lived. Sick, yes. Insane, no way. Freightdawg |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 21 Dec 04 - 01:01 PM You can go through programs like Anonymizer, but if that company is presented with the facts that you've committed a crime going through their system, they'll cooperate with authorities. The woman who committed that monstrous act is also monstrously sick. The days seem to be long gone when obvious mental illness was treated as such by American courts. Now if enough people who don't understand about mental illness are angry enough, the court of public opinion sees to it that they get tried anyway. Like the Houston mother, Andrea Yates, who drowned her children. Don't waste your time pushing those ladies toward prison and the death chamber, instead wonder about a medical system that lets them fall through such massive cracks, and the spouses of these women who seem to have missed an awful lot. They didn't commit these acts without an plenty of potential gatekeepers falling down on the job. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Bill D Date: 21 Dec 04 - 12:59 PM from the article: "Experts say IP addresses are not foolproof; they can be made up, like nearly anything else in the Internet age. But they often are part of a package of evidence that can lead to a conviction." it's a good thing that most unbalanced criminals are too dumb to know how they can be tracked online, and have little idea how to REALLY hide their tracks. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 21 Dec 04 - 12:43 PM If it was up to me I'd hang the vicious-c#nt in a public forum! And being close to anonymous is like being a little bit dead... If close is all you can get, then it ain't worth trying for at all, cause all yer doin' is making work for yourself... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Big Mick Date: 21 Dec 04 - 12:40 PM The answer is "No". You cannot be anonymous online. You can get close, but not anonymous. But this woman wasn't the brightest candle in the chandelier. It's not like she consciously tried very hard, and wasn't very smart, to disguise herself. Anyone who would commit such an act is obviously VERRRRRRY unbalanced. I am sure the Bushies will call for her immediate death. Yep, let's kill all the sicko's. Mick |
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Subject: Tech: Think you can be anonymous on-line? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 21 Dec 04 - 08:41 AM Bobbie Jo Stinnett Murder suspect captured |
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