Union Chapel To Close (UK)

Subject: RE: Union Chapel To Close (UK)
From: breezy
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 05:53 PM

It helps to drink if the 'show' is poor.

perhaps thats why we do it

Subject: RE: Union Chapel To Close (UK)
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 05:24 PM

And if you want to get 'traditional', the intake of alcohol is fairly central to the history, and enjoyment, of what we call "English Folk Songs"

Subject: RE: Union Chapel To Close (UK)
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 05:19 PM

it doesn't take alcohol to make a good gig

It certainly helps, though!

Subject: RE: Union Chapel To Close (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 07:38 PM

" there already was a separate bar area" That was what I thought - so that "recent vote by the Church membership to ban the consumption of alcohol in main auditorium" would presumably have just meant, "people must not take their drinks back into the concert hall itself". And that is of course what the policy is in pretty well all concert halls, theatres or cinemas, as well as churches. (Together with a ban on smoking in the same places.)

So how would it have had this dramatic effect on the income of the operation? This is all sounding very fishy to me. I hope someone will be able to explain what is actually going on.

Subject: RE: Union Chapel To Close (UK)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 07:18 PM

I am a non-smoker.

Smoking (with some help from the medical establishment) killed my wife.

I still object to bans on smoking.

Subject: RE: Union Chapel To Close (UK)
From: Blowzabella
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 02:39 PM

From the website, there already was a separate bar area, so it wasn't a question of having drinks in the concert hall - and there was a theatre and rehearsal space - this place was working as a mini Art Centre, not a folk club - and now it's use will be much reduced - and its income.

Subject: RE: Union Chapel To Close (UK)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:13 PM

It seems that the local Residents Association has more than a finger in this pie.... and it's about considerably more than allowing alcohol in a church building.

But I agree, it doesn't take alcohol to make a good gig.

LTS

Subject: RE: Union Chapel To Close (UK)
From: breezy
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:08 PM

the acoustics were awful anyway, far to big.
the location didnt help.


as a regular Folk club we have re-located seven times in 3 years, as one door closed so we opened another.

Now at the British legion, Verulam Road, St Albans every Friday and Sunday with a full guest list.
Tomorrow Kevin Buxton , Sunday Pat Crilly.

Look for Graeme Knights's CD launch in March

www.folk4all.net or find George Papavgeris's web site and go to contacts

Non-smoking and I'll have a guiness please, ta.

Vin Garbut May 20th

Subject: RE: Union Chapel To Close (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 01:02 PM

I get the feeling there's more to this than is apparent. For on ethig, what is meant by "The only way through would have been to have the secular life of the building put on an equal par alongside the religious. To renegotiate this position would have been a long process assuming there was the will to do it and it would have taken too long given the fragility of the financial situation following a very tough year for the venue."

As for the booze, generally drinking isn't allowed in concert halls. I might quite like it if it was allowed, it works well enough in tents at folk festivals, but the fact you can't take a drink into concert halls doesn't make them unviable, you just have a separate bar. And there's masses of room in that building for that, if that is really the only problem.

The stuff about smoking is a bit irrelevant - the general pattern now is no smoking in concert halls anyway (let alone churches). (Though the point about damage to the church fabric seems a bit misplaced - after all centuries of incense in churches across Europe doesn't seem to have done too much harm.)

Even aside from losing a great venue, it'll be a tragedy if the building doesn't get looked after the way it deserves. If something doesn't get done to pull the chestnuts out of the fire it'll be a crime.

Subject: RE: Union Chapel To Close (UK)
From: PoppaGator
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:27 PM

From my perspective here across the ocean, it's somewhat unbelieveable that a currently-operational church (as opposed to a deconsecrated building formerly housing a church) *ever* operated as a part-time bar/nightclub. A venue for occasional secular concerts, maybe, but not a gathering place featuring music AND alcohol sales.

Looks like a very beautiful building, and I'm sure the gigs were wonderful and will be missed. And I don't *disapprove* of its recent incarnation as a drinking-and-entertainment center -- I just find the concept surprising, to say the least.

As to nutty's comment about a cigarete-smoking ban: Do you Brits *ever* smoke in church? I've seen plenty of smoking just outside the church door (even during services), but never inside. I'd think smoking in church would play hell with any artwork -- murals, statues, etc.

Subject: RE: Union Chapel To Close (UK)
From: Bassic
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:17 PM

Its the sudden loss of the income, without time to adapt, that seems to be the problem.....not the impact of no alcohol on audience sizes.

Subject: RE: Union Chapel To Close (UK)
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:16 PM

"Call me old or even old fashioned but"

OK Old Fashioned Butt:

Smoking isn't banned to protect YOU. It's banned to protect everyone else. As long as I don't piss all over your clothes, you can't complain about me drinking. More christian than Jesus these folks.

Subject: RE: Union Chapel To Close (UK)
From: Bassic
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:14 PM

I agree Nutty.......alcohol in the concert hall itself is not necessary to make a good event.......but as the place is currently dependant on that income and there seems to be little time for alternative arrangements to be made, it does look like the Church may have shot itself in the foot. However, as is often the case in these things....there may be more to this than meets the eye.
I just hope all parties can find a sensible compromise to allow things to go forward until a proper solution that meets everyones expectations can be worked out.
The venue looks to be superb from the web site, and it is a shame if these kinds of multi-use solutions cant be worked out to keep these kinds of buildings alive and in good order for the benefit of a whole range of comunity activities and interests..........much better, I would have thought, than it becoming yet another Carpet Warehouse!

Subject: RE: Union Chapel To Close (UK)
From: nutty
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 12:00 PM

Me again .... just to stir things up.

If it was cigarette smoking that was being banned everyone would be applauding.

But that has probably been done without even a word of protest.

Subject: RE: Union Chapel To Close (UK)
From: nutty
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 11:58 AM

I don't agree that the church membership is being 'narrow-minded'.

Call me old or even old fashioned but I can remember the days when you could be entertained without having alcohol available.

I still go to many folk events ....particularly folk festival workshops and concerts in schools and churches where alcohol is not allowed and feel that often the lack of alcohol greatly enhances the event.

Subject: RE: Union Chapel To Close (UK)
From: Blowzabella
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 11:51 AM

Having looked at the website, I can only say What a great pity that the venue is closing. How narrow-minded of the Church members to make the whole thing completely unviable by insisting on a no-alcohol policy.

The futher shame is that it could well go on to make the building maintenance enormously difficuly, due to the loss of income. If I was the Project director, I'd be spiiting blood!

Subject: Union Chapel To Close (UK)
From: GUEST,DMcG
Date: 13 Jan 05 - 09:45 AM

The Union Chapel is to close after failing top sort out some licencing issues (Not PEL, this time). See the link for more information.

If there is another thread on this, I apologise.