BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: historybuff
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 07:21 PM

Reading thru some of the above posts, it occurs to me that there are some who are misinformed. During the Victorian times, just prior to and after the turn of the 20th century, "modern" science was en vogue, and all the rage among the rich & poor. The wealthy & powerful were putting money into the sciences for their own gains, advancing technology drastically. Modern science as the Victorians knew it was quite exciting, and still new what with electronic devices and mechanical motors and even more amazing discoveries just around the corner. There were constant new experiments & discoveries going on in all areas of the sciences, including physics. With these new discoveries it was beginning to be understood that classical physics could no longer explain the world as they were discovering it, and new laws of physics were needed, which brought about quantum physics.
   With the new physics to explain the modern world, the Victorian people began to include "science" in many more aspects of their life, including religion. As religious phenomena began to be understood in more "scientific" ways & terms, several new belief systems evolved, such as Christian Science, Religious Science, New Thought, & others. Horatio Dresser, who was involved in New Thought, began publishing a periodical, The Journal of Practical Metaphyics, and in 1895 started the Metaphysical Club in Boston. "Metaphysics" was defined as beyond or above physics, and became used in terms of religious beliefs. Physicists, to include Einstein, were interested in religion and active in some of these "new" beliefs.
   Some of you may be surprised to know that Einstein was a friend of several religious leaders in the early part of the 20th century, including Paramahansa Yogananda, a guru from India. Einstein published his opinions, which included religion.
   As to whether or not transporting as in sci fi will happen, we will just have to wait and see. There are many nonbelievers who say that "it will never happen," and people around the world who thought humans would never fly, listened on radios or watched on televisions when humans landed on the moon. Because there are open minded people who can conceive of ideas in their thoughts, eventually experimenting until their idea is turned into something like, say, a computer, we have the ability to discuss these subjects on forums like the Mudcat.
    Maybe someday we'll even be able to say, "2 to beam up."
          Hugh O'Donnell

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:38 PM

"Around the turn of the 1900's there was a great interest in "science" and these such things were explained in "scientific" ways such as physics, thus: metaphysics."


And I thought metaphysics was being studied back centuries earlier...


Metaphysics

By Aristotle

Written 350 B.C.E
http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/metaphysics.html

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: Grab
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:34 PM

If one can concieve it, one can bring it from the thought into the physical.

Rubbish. The ability to imagine something in no way makes it possible to create it. You don't believe me, talk to any civil engineer about the plans they get handed by architects!

Of course the question is, how do they do this?

Preceding this is the question: "Do they do this?" To which the answer is: "Almost certainly not", since there's a shortage of accounts by non-believers. Science can be defined very well as "that which happens whether you believe in it or not" - a rock falling on your head doesn't ask whether you believe in it. Observation OTOH is skewed by belief, and even observation unskewed by belief is subject to error given a suitably-sophisticated trick.

Physicists have said for decades that time & space fluctuate & therefore must be somehow alterable by some means.

Yep. However physicists have also said for decades that teleportation ain't happening. NewScientist recently did a summary. The most optimistic opinion was that the maths said it *might* be possible - but only if more energy was available than was stored in the entire universe. Oops.

If we only use 8-10% of our brain, perhaps the rest of the brain was once used for the science of metaphysics?

Except that little statistic is fallacious too.

Things that make you go...hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Things that make me go.... hahahaaahaaaa!

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 05:31 PM

The Blue Screen of Death would take on a new meaning indeed! Just think of the liability suits!! And the insurance!! You'd have to sign your soul away just to transport your body!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 05:05 PM

Well it couldn't possibly work any faster than the author's trip from a vague, non-cited (& unchallenged) reference of teleporting ions to intergalactic space travel without missing a beat. Sort of amoeba to Einstein in thirty seconds.

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 02:09 PM

Don Juan and Carlos Castaneda could explain this for you, if they were around....

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 02:02 PM

Just another way to end your journey with a "crash".

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 10:30 AM

I suspect it could be 'travail' in a Windows environment... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 09:58 AM

Dialing a wrong number would have brand new consequences.

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 09:26 AM

I would love to see a documented case of shaman teleportation, because it would represent such a powerful argument for the spiritual potential of the species; but I have only heard occasional anecdotal stories. Meanwhile, I hope they accelerate the development curve of the physics-based version!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: Kaleea
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 12:40 AM

I heard in the recent few years that somebody was working on transporting, but so far had only been able to move very small particles.
   A few years back I think I remember seeing on the Today show somebody wrote a book on Treknology--technology that was seen on Star Trek &/or inspired by the ideas on Trek. That was before the flip style cellphone was everywhere. It has long been known that Science Fiction is Future Science fact. If one can concieve it, one can bring it from the thought into the physical.
    If one is inclined to believe, there are Medicine Men/Women aka Shamen & the equivilant all around the globe who have been practicing tele-transportation for thousands of years. Of course the question is, how do they do this? Around the turn of the 1900's there was a great interest in "science" and these such things were explained in "scientific" ways such as physics, thus: metaphysics. Physicists have said for decades that time & space fluctuate & therefore must be somehow alterable by some means. There was great interest at that time in the practices of hindu yogis.
   If we only use 8-10% of our brain, perhaps the rest of the brain was once used for the science of metaphysics?
    Things that make you go...hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: Pauline L
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 12:10 AM

This is great news. I don't own a car. When can I start traveling this way?

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 11:41 PM

Anybody seen The Fly? Either version, 1954 or 1986.

Don Firth

Help me! Please! Help me!

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 11:40 PM

Nope...I'll wait for the Open Source versions from SourceForge...all free and tested..

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 11:34 PM

Wot? Ya don't wanna be a tester, Bill? Wanna wait for the shareware version?**bg**

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 11:29 PM

Let me know when it's out of beta

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 11:16 PM

Him...I dunno, CH! Mebbe some of us are more boneless than others, I guess!! :D


A

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 11:10 PM

"He thought it would have to be limited to liquids and gasses"

Well, that's the human race for ya...

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 11:08 PM

Arthur C Clarke, who makes very good guesses about technology, wrote a short story about this many years ago. He thought it would have to be limited to liquids and gasses, at least for a long time.

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 08:00 PM

I, for one, wouldn't choose to travil in a Windows environmnt.

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 07:55 PM

Well, what difference would it make? Where is there a shred of experience, outside the conviction of that experience?

Genuine "belief" or certainty (to steer clear of religiosity) is almost the definition of experience!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 07:48 PM

I'd volunteer if,it could get me from my living room to Anywhere I was playing in just a few seconds, and then, heaven! back to my bed in the same time.               
However, we all know that once they've got it they'll tax its use astronomically. But I'd definitely do a better gig!!

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 07:34 PM

If they're looking for test subjects, I think I'd turn down the opportunity ....

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 07:34 PM

Man, would that be convenient. But. . . .

With permission from Gene Roddenberry, British science fiction writer James Blish wrote a novel (maybe more that one) based on the Star Trek: TOS milieu and characters in which Kirk and McCoy have a most interesting conversation about McCoy's antipathy toward the transporter.

I can't remember it verbatim, but McCoy says something like, "When you go through the transporter, how do you know that the person who assembles at the destination point is the same person who was disassembled at the starting point? Sure, they look the same, and the memories are all replaced, so the reassembled person is absolutely sure they are the same person. But how does one know that the person being disassembled isn't actually killed, and that the person who appears at the beam-down point is a brand new entity? For all practical purposes, it's the same person. But look—suppose you step into the transporter and the awareness that is you suddenly ceases to exist. Then a new awareness that isn't you appears. All the memories are immediately downloaded into the new awareness, and the new entity is absolutely sure that it is you. But it isn't. You no longer exist! Think of it, Jim! By using that thing, we may be killing people by the millions, and we have no way of knowing whether that's what we're doing or not!"   

Hmm.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 06:58 PM

Oh PLEASE! Then I can get to gigs without driving!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 05:35 PM

Mapping the states of a trillion² atoms is within the reach of current computer science, given a large enough net of processors. But for the love of Mike, don't give the software job to Microsoft or to the DoD!!!!


A

Subject: BS: Beam me up, Scotty - advancing science?
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 09:18 AM

Teleportation: Express Lane Space Travel coing to a planet near you...maybe:-)