BS: Help! Spotted Owl

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 12:03 PM

Worse news may be on the way--BC forest industry in 2005 had a bad year (i.e. profits were down drastically and lots of mill closures in the Coastal Districts) so the government is bending over backwards to remedy the situation. Conveniently, these strategies ignore the record profits made in 2004. And the illegal US softweood tarrif on Canadian lumber ($3 billion and counting) hasn't helped either.

To compound the problems, the pine beetle infestation continues unchecked and massive tracts of pine forest (areas bigger than some European countries) have been killed. The stumpage fee (what industry pays to the govt. for taking a tree) has been dropped drastically on these trees, but not many foerst companies seem to be lining up to remove the wood (the wood is stained denim-blue by a fungus carried by the beetle).

These areas are not the same as the old growth that sustains the spotted owl. But old growth trees are monsterously large and relatively easy to get at, hence the foresters' lack of respect for the wildlife therein.

Forestry in BC is the number one industry. My question is why didn't the logging companies pump the 2004 profits into value added manufacturing instead of exporting raw logs to the US? Why, in a province like British Columbia, is there an Ikea store?

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: Metchosin
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 04:33 AM

Yeah, you sure get a lot of flying squirrels gliding over those grasslands.........

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: Peace
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 05:39 PM

I received this today in response to my e-mail. Haven't heard from anyone else as yet.

"Thank you for your correspondence regarding the Spotted Owl in BC. I have included a media release for you so that you may have an understanding of my position and the position of the NDP Opposition on this critical issue. Thanks again.

Sincerely,

Shane Simpson MLA

Vancouver Hastings

Environment Critic




(Community Office)

ph: 604.775.2277 fax: [phone]

2365 East Hastings Street

Vancouver, BC V5L 1V6



(Victoria Office)

ph: 250.387.3655 fax: [phone]

Room 201

Legislative Buildings

Victoria, BC V8V 1X4





For Immediate Release

December 6, 2005


SIMPSON SAYS PENNER LACKS COMMITMENT TO SPECIES AT RISK


VICTORIA – Species at risk can expect no protection from the B.C. government if Environment Minister Barry Penner's actions regarding the spotted owl are any indication, New Democrat Environment Critic Shane Simpson said Tuesday.

Simpson, the NDP MLA for Vancouver – Hastings, said Penner's recent comments about the endangered bird, coupled with the ministry's continued refusal to release their Spotted Owl Management Plan, doesn't bode well for species at risk in this province.

Penner told Global News last week that increased logging activity is beneficial to spotted owls, because it opens up grassland for the owls' prey.

"The Minister's comments show he's either ignorant about the research done by biologists, and even by consultants hired by industry, or he's shilling for the logging industry," said Simpson.

Three forest firms voluntarily withdrew plans to log in spotted owl habitat, but a permit was recently issued to Cattermole Timber in the Hope area. The population of spotted owls has steadily declined since 1994, when there were 200 breeding pairs in the province. There are now only six breeding pairs in all of British Columbia.

"The Minister is sitting on a Spotted Owl Management Plan that was completed in 2004 but was never released to the public," said Simpson. "Apparently he's content to sit back and watch the Spotted Owl go extinct in British Columbia."

Simpson said scientists have been explicit that the only solution is to halt activity in the Spotted Owl habitat.

"The Spotted Owl will soon be permanently extinct in British Columbia if this government doesn't act," Simpson said, "and it's a clear illustration of the Liberal government's inability or unwillingness to protect species at risk."

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: Metchosin
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 05:26 PM

I beg to differ pdq. The "trouble" began thousands of years ago with human encroachment for industrial, agricultural and housing purposes, with the resultant loss of habitat and the effects of uncontrolled and/or poorly researched environmental pollutants.

Also in some cases, pure entertainment and sport played a part, as well as the introduction of alien species, intentional or otherwise and in the case of the bison, in some regions of North America, as a pawn of deliberate genocide or in other instances folklore, based on fear and ignorance.

Quite often the basis is not so much human survival, as a lack of innovation and out and out greed.

This has been particularly hard on any organism, Òcute or uglyÓ, that is niche specific in it's requirements, or rather, not particularly cosmopolitan in nature or organisms whose populations are low to begin with and therefore more vulnerable to changes in their environment, wrought by human activity or other variables.

While a scientific background may provide some with tools, not possessed by others, it does not guarantee that those tools will be used with intelligence, wisdom and without prejudice. Or as my old departed father-in-law often exclaimed, ÒIsnÕt it amazing that you can educate the stupid.Ó

Both sides of the Spotted Owl controversy are not without their prejudices. Mine tends to lie on the side of environmentalists, but I will continue to remain skeptical of anyone who proclaims that their opinion has more credence than others, because they think theyÕve learned a thing or two, about a thing or two, scientific or otherwise.

Oh yeah, as a basis for my own prejudices, at one time, I had the good fortune to have a job which entailed natural history and geological background research, the reports of which were presented to our government and eventually led to the establishment of this and this, amongst others. LOL

While it was an incredibly fulfilling position, that utilized my Òscientific backgroundÓ amongst other stuff and although I consider my part relatively minor, given the politics of such endeavours, it does not buy me any more credibility than you pdq, nor any others on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 01:43 AM

For what it's worth, I have given testimony concerning three endangered species. That information was asked for under provisions of the US Endangered Species Act. I am concerned about the possible extinction of any and all species of plants and animals. Big ones, small ones, cute ones and ugly ones. Vertebrates and invertebrates. In the US, Canada, Mexico or anywhere else on this planet. All have value, not just the big-eyed birds and cute mammals.

pdq, can we count on your concern to translate into support?

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: dianavan
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 11:27 PM

pdq, you say - "I am concerned about the possible extinction of any and all species of plants and animals," but you offer no solution.

Protecting their habitat is a good solution because it protects many other animals as well. What testimony could you possibly give that would save an endangered species unless it was to protect their habitat? I'd really like to hear it.

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: pdq
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 08:31 PM

For what it's worth, I have given testimony concerning three endangered species. That information was asked for under provisions of the US Endangered Species Act. I am concerned about the possible extinction of any and all species of plants and animals. Big ones, small ones, cute ones and ugly ones. Vertebrates and invertebrates. In the US, Canada, Mexico or anywhere else on this planet. All have value, not just the big-eyed birds and cute mammals.

The trouble began when Environmentalists started using plant and animal species to block logging, mining, land development and recreational activities. These people are almost always liberal arts majors, not scientists. Their goal is to block the activities mentioned. Saving the wildlife is more a tool than a goal.

The Spotted Owl has become a 'cause celeb' in it's own right and now overshadows the real important issue of protecting all endangered species. Until we can focus on conservation issues for their own merit and drop the politics, lies and hype, both sides will remain galvanized. The reaction of Louie Roy is absolutely reasonable based on the fact that the 'solution' is so grotesquely out of proportion to the problem. His point of view is shared my many. They are the ones who are "ten steps to the right of center when it affects them personally".

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: pdq
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 07:42 PM

Met...sorry you don't use that great brain for anything but keeping your cranium from imploding.

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: Metchosin
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 07:38 PM

pdq quit being thick, my "threat of exctinction" comment dealt with the whole post regarding Canada, it was not intended to refer verbatim to a specific line and no doubt should have been emphasized withBOLD CAPITOL LETTERS rather than the "quotation marks" I used for emphasis.

While I may occasionally err in correct form, I seldom lie wittingly and I did not make that comment with the intention to mislead anyone.

Either way it does not change the official status of this bird in Canada. It is your prerogative to consider me a liar, I sir, consider you an obtuse, parochial ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: pdq
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 06:56 PM

I am trying to help you look past the hype and think for yourself. In your case dv, that appears to be absolutely hopeless.

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: dianavan
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 06:48 PM

pdq - We must be reading different posts. The fourth and fifth lines of the original read as follows: "Today, only 6 pairs have been located. Unless drastic action is taken immediately, it will be the first vertebrate species in BC to go extinct as a result of logging."

As I read down the post, I can find nothing that is a lie or hypes this issue in any way.

It is under threat of extinction in Canada.

Please answer my quetions. "Where are you living? Does the protection of this habitat, endanger you in any way?"

If not, why get you knickers in a twist about something that doesn't concern you? If you think that environmentalists are lying, I would guess that in some way you threatened.

Or are you just arguing for the sake of argument?

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: pdq
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 05:25 PM

OK. Here are "lines 4 & 5" of the original post:

"most endangered bird. In 1994, government biologists estimated there were over 200 spotted owls left in British Columbia. Today, only 6 pairs have been located. Unless drastic action is taken immediately, it will be the first vertebrate species in"

Here is Met's quote:

"threat of extinction in Canada"

Now, dv or Met, please find that quote. My point is not about the status of the Spotted Owl so much as the inability of Environmentalists to present their cases without lies and hype.

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: Peace
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 05:18 PM

We have bald eagles in Canada, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: Metchosin
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 05:13 PM

Almost as uncommon as the American Bald Eagle once was in danger of becoming in the lower 48.........

Òpending extinction of a number of BC's forest-dependant endangered species, including the Northern spotted owl, Canada's most endangered bird speciesÓ

Òthe Spotted Owl, Canada's most endangered birdÓ

Ò200 spotted owls left in British Columbia. Today, only 6 pairs have been locatedÓ

Òorder the protection of all of the remaining spotted owl forest habitat within the owl's Canadian rangeÓ

ÒSARCO requested to meet with enviro-groups (like the Wilderness Committee) who are working to save the spotted owl in CanadaÓ

ÒProtecting all of the owl's remaining habitat is the only thing that can give Canada's spotted owl a fighting chanceÓ

Óour options for recovering the spotted owl in CanadaÓ

Òwould protect about 300,000 hectares of older forests,
currently outside of parks, around the communities of Vancouver, Mission, Chilliwack, Hope, Boston Bar, Lytton, Lillooet and WhistlerÓ (this area represents a very small portion of the havestable timber in BC)

I suppose the WCWC could have used the technical term ÒextirpatedÓ from its Canadian range, but considering the plight of this bird south of the border as well, any attempt to protect the remaining population in North America would seem prudent.

If one is satisfied that the relentless process of shrinking genetic diversity within a species is a good thing, as a result of destruction of habitat and other factors, then lead on MacDuff! I for one, am not that certain it is.

One thing for sure, whatever process of time, habitat and genetics made Ursus arctos californicus, once the largest of the Brown bears in the world and provided itÕs unique colouration, no reintroduction of Ursus arctos is really going to bring the California Grizzly back from extinction, unless it is possible to retrieve some DNA from museum specimens.

It would have been sad if Alaska had become the only remaining State which could legitimately claim the American Eagle too. Of course the symbol of America was worth considering fighting for and changing industrial procedures and methods of habitat protection was not deemed beyond the pale in order to do so. "Was that politics? You bet it was! Of course if little had been done, Canada could have always turned around and said ÒDonÕt worry boys, weÕll ship you a few south to display in your game parks!Ó

Then again, there will always be those who would say, ÒAre there no zoos?Ó

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: dianavan
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 05:10 PM

pdq - Line 4 and 5

"Unless drastic action is taken immediately, it will be the first vertebrate species in BC to go extinct as a result of logging."

What is it you don't understand about loss of habitat = extinction?

Why are you opposing this? Where are you living? Does the protection of this habitat, endanger you in any way?

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: pdq
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 03:50 PM

Louie Roy,

It may be difficult to separate the poor bird, which is being used as a pawn in a political game, from the perpetrators. Don't take vengeance on the Spotted Owl. It is not guilty of anything but being cute and uncommon.

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: open mike
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 03:34 PM

The beautiful Barred Owl has a call that sounds like "Who cooks for you? Who cooks for you?" it has 8 beats--do you think they are capable of counting? I thin the Spotted owl, who is a cousin to the Barred has a
similar call.

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: Louie Roy
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 02:35 PM

I'm not a friend of the spotted owl.What it did here in oregon in the 1980s it broke a lot of sawmill it broke up families it cause men to commit suicide it also broke many small businesses who relied on the pay checks from mill employees.I made a sign and pasted it onto the back of my pick up which read
NO LOGS NO LUMBER NO LUMBER NO CHIPS NO CHIPS NO PAPER SO YOU ENVIROMENTALIST WIPE YOUR ASS ON A SPOTTED OWL.I still feel the same way today

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: pdq
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 10:46 AM

Met,

I have looked for your quote "threat of extinction in Canada" in the origonal post and cannot seem to find it. Please say which line of text (as in "line 15") it is located.

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: Metchosin
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 06:13 AM

pdq, what are you on about? The WCWC request is a Canadian document, directed to a Canadian government and as such, is only meant to address the problem within the borders of Canada, in the Province of British Columbia. What part of "threat of extinction in Canada" is deceptive or misleading?

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: pdq
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 08:44 PM

If Environmentalists want help from the public at large, they must start with a little more 'truth in advertising'. I am fully aware that there are several suggested sub-species of the Spotted Owl, but nowhere in the origional post is the term 'sub-species' found. It claims the 'species' will become extinct.

BTW, did you know that wolves and elk are being introduced into habitats even though they are of a different sub-species than the origional (now extinct) ones which origionally lived in those areas? Same with bear found in Europe. Incorrect sub-species introduced to replace lost ones. Why is this important in one case and not in another?

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 08:18 PM

pdq - The Northern Spotted Owl is one of three sub-species of Spotted owls. If you look at the map on this link:

http://www.amnh.org/nationalcenter/Endangered/owl/owl.html

you will find that the habitat of the Northern Spotted owl is quite small and definitely endangered. They rely on old growth forests.

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: Peace
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 05:09 PM

However, I sent an e-mail.

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: pdq
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 03:58 PM

"We say that the BC Cabinet must order the protection of all of the remaining spotted owl forest habitat within the owl's Canadian range if this endangered species is to have any hope of survival."

This statement is very misleading. In fact, most of the original post is hype.

FACT: The range of the Spotted Owls barely extends into Canada. A very small area at the extreme southwest corner of British Columbia is all. This is precisely the same bird found across the border in the US. Actually, the Spotted Owl can be found all throughout the mountains of Mexico as well as in most of the US west of the Rocky Mountains. That is tens of millions of acres. To say that this species will not survive if Canadian lands are not set aside for the is quite absurd.

As usual the poor Spotted Owl is being used as a pawn by various players.

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 03:32 PM

Thanks for the post, BPL.

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 02:06 PM

Refreshing this so it doesn't disappear along with the owl. An email takes less than a minute ... please send one! I'll even make it easier; just cut and paste this into your address line:

[e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: Metchosin
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 03:25 AM

uh..........Barred Owl has migrated "westward"............

My old field guide of the Birds of North America (Western Edition) doesn't even have the Barred Owl listed, so when I first saw this fellow's beautiful dark eyes, I was all excited, thinking I had a Spotted Owl sitting in a tree beside our house.

Although he is a threat to the ecosystem as well, I somehow can't see myself blowing his little feathered head off.

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: Metchosin
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 02:05 AM

Sadly protection of their remaining habitat may not insure the survival of the Northern Spotted Owl in BC or in Washington and Oregon for that matter.

The more agressive Barred Owl has migrated eastward and is threatening what remains of the Spotted Owl population. The Barred Owl eats Spotted Owls, out competes them for food in their traditional habitat and mates with them as well. The hybrids are also not particularly prolific.

Even saving current habitat may not be enough, without declaring open season on the eastern Barred Owl as well. The Barred Owl is also causing problems for our little Northern Saw-whet Owl too, here on Vancouver Island.

Subject: RE: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Dec 05 - 10:35 PM

Good luck. In the US in the Pacific Northwest we had our moment with the Spotted Owl. It has become the bittersweet laughing stock with one side full of scorn and the other relieved at its victory.

I'm just thankful that these endangered species are found in time to stop the depradation and degradation of their habitat. Who knows how many species we have lost because we did NOT find them in time.

Subject: BS: Help! Spotted Owl
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 02 Dec 05 - 10:17 PM

I'm posting this appeal on behalf of the Western Canda Wilderness Committee, but I hope you appreciate that no matter where you live, this is a little part of YOUR planet and you are entitled to a say.

Please take just 5 minutes and quickly send an email to protect the old-growth forest habitat of the Spotted Owl, Canada's most endangered bird. In 1994, government biologists estimated there were over 200 spotted owls left in British Columbia. Today, only 6 pairs have been located. Unless drastic action is taken immediately, it will be the first vertebrate species in BC to go extinct as a result of logging.

Emergency Action Alert for Canada's Spotted Owl!

The BC government is getting ready to make a decision regarding habitat protection for the Northern Spotted Owl.

We say that the BC Cabinet must order the protection of all of the
remaining spotted owl forest habitat within the owl's Canadian range if this endangered species is to have any hope of survival.

Backgrounder

In October 2004, the BC Liberal government formed the Species At Risk
Coordination Office (SARCO), to develop options to address mounting
public and scientific concern about the pending extinction of a number
of BC's forest-dependant endangered species, including the Northern
spotted owl, Canada's most endangered bird species. The spotted owl is
endangered because of the logging of it's old growth forest habitat.

SARCO's options are to be presented to the BC Cabinet, who are to then
choose between the options as to what course of action to take.

In October 2005 the three members of SARCO requested to meet with
enviro-groups (like the Wilderness Committee) who are working to save
the spotted owl in Canada to show us the options they will present to
government.

At the meeting we were shocked to see SARCO's four options for recovering the spotted owl in Canada. Three of the options contained no or almost no provisions for habitat protection. If the BC government chooses any one of these three options it would be a death sentence for Canada's spotted owl population!

And, if the logging of old growth forest were to continue, not only would the owl disappear from our forests, but so would a whole host of
other forest-dependant creatures.

However, the fourth SARCO option contained a provision for protecting
all remaining forested spotted owl habitat within spotted owl range.
This option would protect about 300,000 hectares of older forests,
currently outside of parks, around the communities of Vancouver,
Mission, Chilliwack, Hope, Boston Bar, Lytton, Lillooet and Whistler.

Protecting all of the owl's remaining habitat is the only thing that can give Canada's spotted owl a fighting chance at survival.

The BC Cabinet is expected to review all four options for spotted owl
recovery this coming week, then choose one option to put into practice.

There is no time to waste!

Please send some emails today and tell the BC government how important it is to you that they protect all remaining spotted owl forest habitat from logging.

Email the Environment Minister Barry Penner at:
[e-mail]

Email Premier Campbell at:
[e-mail]

Send a copy of your email to Opposition Environment Critic Shane Simpson at:
[e-mail]

And, please send us a copy of your email for our records.
[e-mail]