BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: ejsant
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 08:26 AM

"ejsant, so you just sit there in a stupor and tell yourself you are fine while your lungs turn black and you break the law and get your pot illegally from some street crooks. To bad you have MS. The majority of people with MS I would think rise above your type of activity."

No Martin I don't just sit here in a stupor nor do I tell myself I am fine because I am not. I have a chronic debilitating disease that may very well again some day take my ability to walk and see, perhaps permanently this time. By the way my pulmonary function consistently measures as that of an athlete in their late teens according to the Drs. so your "lungs turn black" argument is baseless as well. Further more Martin your closed simple mind leads you to yet another incorrect assertion. I do not buy pot from some street crook. Truth be told my feeble minded friend in my experience the folks that have MS that "rise above (my) type of activity" and use the "conventional" medical protocols are at best using a four point cane and at worse a wheel chair. I still take 3 to 5 mile walks at least three and sometimes five times a week.

But I guess I could legally obtain a prescription for Prozac or Zoloft to keep my spirits up and combat the depression associated MS and with the use the Chemo drugs most commonly used in MS treatment protocols, but of course I would then need to also take some pharmaceutical to control the nausea and appetite loss. Let me see, stick a needle in my muscles and drop eight or ten pills a day or take a toke from time to time. Not much to think about in my mind. Oh I see, the law you say, well Martin one time in our country's not too distant history it was legal, reads the law, to buy and sell human beings. Oh yea, right your are, in doing things my way the captains of industry won't continue to make their $35,000,000.00 each. Wow, I am selfish aren't I?

I suppose one day I too may be as miserable as you Martin and ridicule those that disagree with me whilst attempting to impose my way of thinking on them. I pray that my journey ends prior to that day.

Peace,
Ed

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: *daylia*
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 07:38 AM

Human beings use pot not because they are stupid or trying to fill some hypothetical "inner emptiness". They use it because they enjoy it. Believe it or not, many many people just enjoy the effects - physical, mental, emotional. Just like they enjoy the many other pleasures and benefits life has to offer.

It's really that simple, folks. And as far as I know, it hasn't changed in at least a couple millenia on this planet.

What has changed, of course, are the laws surrounding it. The thinking behind those laws remains as ignoranat, flawed and bigotted as it was in the 1920's. Enforcing those laws is laughably ineffective, counter-productive and a complete waste of time, energy, human resources and taxpayer's money. Such asinine laws just beg to be broken - so please rest assured that the more daring, "free-thinking" members of society will continue to do whatever they please until they change.

Don't like it? Feel better about yourself, when you safely and securely and predictably toe the lawful line? Well then it's simple - don't use it!

I know exactly how you feel - I don't, for example, drink alcohol or coke or take prescription mind-altering drugs or even watch TV these days, simply because I don't like those things. So why do people drink alcohol, or watch TV, or take prozac (for example)? To fill some "inner emptiness"? Because they're all brain-dead, or sheep-like followers or a bunch of miserable twats?

Hmmm .... well maybe .... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 04:38 AM

Little Hawk...You don't see pot smoking as a serious matter...even though it does in some cases lead to other drug taking and addiction which you say is a serious matter....not sure of your logic there.
Cigarette smoking damages your physical health...Pot smoking affects your mental health.....McG of H...I don't want to breathe either thank you. I also won't condone law breaking because someone happens to enjoy breaking the law. The law is there in the first place to protect people....I do however consider that if drugs are used ...purely....for medical purposes... on prescription..then there is a place for them. Even that can be abused! I certainly don't see any excuse for the "teenage rebellion" attitude that some show in this thread. However you look at it...laws are there for all of us not just the ones who attempt to keep to them! Some seem to think that it is their right to break laws...well it aint!
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 07:53 PM

Try a bong?

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: kendall
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 07:42 PM

I tried pot twice and it made me paranoid both times.
It may be good for you, but the paper you roll it in sure as hell isn't.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 07:33 PM

So I take it you're teetotal too, Strolling Johnnie. And you don't drink tea or coffee or eat chocolate, or drink Coke. (I'm with you on that last one.)

Fair enough.But why try to impose those kind of choices on everyone else?

One thing though - the issue of smoking is a separate one. It's not a good way to treat your lungs, whatever you are smoking. But I'd much sooner be breathing second hand smoke with somone smoking dope than with someone smoking tobacco.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 06:09 PM

Everybody breaks a few laws now and then, Martin. Just depends which ones, that's all...and how serious a matter it seems to be to the person, and stuff like that. People cheat on their taxes in small ways, they park illegally now and then, they may not come to a full stop at a stop sign sometime, etc. They exceed the speed limit. They change lanes without signalling. They cut the little tag off their pillows. :-) They break the law. You do it too, I would bet on that. Only question is...which law?

Most of us do not break laws which we think are a serious matter. Smoking pot is not a serious matter, in my opinion, and it's nobody else's business if you do.

Being heavily addicted to ANYTHING, however, IS a serious matter. If one is heavily addicted, one needs to develop a new outlook or some kind of professional treatment...not get arrested.

Victimless crimes should not, in my opinion, be prosecuted. (by which, I mean a "crime", by legal definition only, that affects only the perpetrator.)

Who made you...or a government...or a judge...the rightful arbitor of someone else's private morality? Sheep mentality, that's what. If you like belonging to the herd, then you will defend the herd's chosen orthodoxy, but you probably won't really know why you are doing it. That's mere conformity, not independent thinking.

I was never attracted to smoking (pot or anything else). I went totally AGAINST the prevailing herd mentality of my whole generation and society when I was young by refusing both pot AND tobacco. You went with it when you were younger (you smoked pot). Now you're going with it again, in a sense, by reflecting the average values of an older age group.

So, who is the independent thinker here? Who is the free man?   Whaddya think?

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: bobad
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 05:43 PM

"pleasure seems only to be achievable when brain-function is interfered with."

Uh, you do know, I presume, that pleasure is experienced via the brain therefore interference with, stimulation, activation or whatever you want to call it is a prelude to the sensation of pleasure no matter the stimulus.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 12:56 PM

Hic.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 12:32 PM

Hear Hear Strollin' Johnny....Actually I have to admit to being a little involved in the 60's but as I believe I mentioned before on this thread...some of my friends suffered paranoia and it was concurred by the medical profession that pot was the cause. We should, I suppose, expect attack from the pot heads you mention...as they probably feel a little paranoid themselves.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 12:00 PM

Hey *daylia*, not holier-than-thou (in fact if you knew me, you'd be very aware that I'm not holy at all! LOL!), just not the kind that ever felt the need to follow the rest of the herd when the wacky-baccy was being passed around, or even ordinary baccy for that matter!

I confess I do have very strong anti-pot feelings which I've gone into at great lengths elsewhere, and received a pile of shite back from the pot-heads, so I've no wish to open that can of worms again, but it just seems odd to me that, for some at least, pleasure seems only to be achievable when brain-function is interfered with. I'd rather remain fully compos-mentis.
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 03:18 PM

The new Tory leader is calling for it's legalisation. Yes we all know why. But common sense is at last on the agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 03:09 PM

I used to make those...but they were sculptures of people holding their heads - which were the bowls.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: *daylia*
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 02:52 PM

Ahhhh .... sweet sweet maryjane ...

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 02:37 PM

What are you actually doing with the pot that gives you a chubby? With me it was always girls ...

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 02:17 PM

If it is good for the mind or not there is no denying that pot and hashish create iron hard erections for hours and is far superior to modern Viagra products which can not enhance sexual pleasure like pot does.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 02:06 PM

Are all the anti pot brigade tee totallers? Thought not. I'd rather a peaceful crowd than drunks.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 01:15 PM

I've never tried marijuana because it might have disqualified me for the top-secret security clearance I had most of my working life. I gave up tobacco ten years ago because it was affecting my breathing, and I still have breathing problems and would still love to have a cigarette.
Can a person smoke marijuana and not have his breathing affected?
Should I stick to Alice B. Toklas Brownies?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 12:56 PM

It's just another attempt to fill the inner emptiness, that's all. For some, it's pot. For others it's sex. For others it's power. For others it's eating. For others it's buying stuff. I've tried most methods, and I ended up deciding that whisky and cigars seemed to suit me best. Strictly a matter of personal taste. If they made whisky and cigars illegal, I would get very upset. Guess what drove organized crime in the Prohibition era...

You can guide people toward a better way, but y' can't FORCE them to be "good", according to your definition of it, no matter how hard you try. Makin' substances illegal will not deliver humanity into a new era of peace and social stability. No sir.

You know what would give us peace and social stability? If everyone had a stable family home and a decent job and felt safe and loved and respected and had a real good sense of meaning about their lives, that's what.

It ain't gonna happen in a world run by selfish, greedy, insecure big bosses in suits who wanna be king of the hill.

Democracy? Ha. You ain't even seen real democracy yet, baby. We're livin' in the land of the robber barons. Better believe it. Blood money is what rules. They like makin' stuff illegal, and they can always get some of it themselves...no problem. They got contacts you don't. They are not governed by the laws they enact. You are.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: *daylia*
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 12:43 PM

Not everyone can be as joyful, creative or holy as thou, Johnny.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 12:28 PM

Why some people can't have a good time without intoxicating themselves is beyond my comprehension. They must be very short on imagination, or just miserable twats.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: *daylia*
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 12:00 PM

Well, using pot appears to have health benefits in some people, some of the time, BUT if you are recovering from surgery or have a cold or flu, don't bother lighting up. Pot taxes the immune system, raises heart-rate and blood pressure and thereby prolongs/increases bleeding.

If criminalization disappeared, in all likelihood so would paranoia. Those two "side effects" seem to go hand in hand!

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 11:47 AM

In six years of suffering the chronic pain associated with MS I have found no other substance that obviates the pain like it.

Good for you Ed. Your experiments with pain killers led to a conclusion that works. Science rules.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: ejsant
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 05:21 AM

"People who find that it enhances their lives are really fooling themselves."

In six years of suffering the chronic pain associated with MS I have found no other substance that obviates the pain like it. So you see Martin this plant really enhances my life. I put my faith in the energy that has created this world rather than the science of those created by the energy. Seems to be a higher authority to me.

Peace,
Ed

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: Barry Finn
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 02:39 AM

My Dad died peacefully well into his 70's along with a few other of his smoking buddies from his younger days. I'd always assumed they started smoking sometime after WWII. Dad started, I believe, to self medicate his sever wounds recieved at G'Canal & was told he'd never walk again or have the use of his left arm. He became a hussler at pool & bowling & a con man & mom couldn't stand this so out he went. I didn't get to know him until around 12 yrs old. That friendship lasted till he died. When I got to know him he had changed (after he had kicked his heroin habit) but was a bit set in his beatnik ways. He never did stop smoking, though. I didn't know he smoked at all until I got caught smoking at the age of 15 or 16. So it was all in the open. I still recall the stories I'd hear when a couple of old timers would get together, very funny but the one thing that stood out was they talked passionitly & intellegently of politics, civil & human rights or of the injustices they'd seen or life with a sense of morality. I'd bump into a friend or two of his so every often or him at peace or civil rights march during the 60's. They were all roughly his age, in fine shape, body, mind & soul (I never did see my father show any signs of being effected by his war wounds) & none of them ever ceased to smoke dope, even Spud who died well into his 80's (the last of the great smokers). I don't follow the studies, only what I saw & was a part of (never with dad or his friends) in those days. Haven't smoked in probably 30 yrs now but my memory isn't all that great either not near as good those guys. Who knows, maybe if I kept it up I'd I might not have fogotten so much?

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: M.Ted
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 11:50 PM

I think that pot, like ExLax, probably can be great therapeutically--but, use either one recreationally over time, you're gonna lose a lot more than you gain--

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: Once Famous
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 11:38 PM

I have admitted before that I used to use it quite regularly for many years and now haven't at all for many years. I am much better off without it and feel it should stay illegal.

People who find that it enhances their lives are really fooling themselves. I used to think it did, then realized fucking was just as good without it, so was music, eating, and watching old Japanese monster movies.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 10:31 PM

cough...

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 10:26 PM

You've met him too, Martin?

My impression is that pot is many things to many people. It is of benefit to some, completely innocuous to others, and harmful to still others. There's no particular reason why it should be illegal...but...there's no particular reason why most people should smoke it either! ;-)

Still, I wouldn't bother them about it if they want to. That's their business. As drugs go, it's one of the most peaceful in its side effects.

I think the main reason the $ySStem wants it illegal is, it's so damn easy to grown and harvest that ANYONE can do it at home, and I mean ANYONE!!! Total layabouts and idiots can grow and harvest pot with aplomb. Accordingly, you can't make a lucrative business out of it, because you can't control the supply if it's legal and everyone can grow it at home. Accordingly, the powers that be don't like it. It's like air or sunshine. They can't corner the market on it and charge a high price...UNLESS it's illegal! Bingo!

They're laughing all the way to the bank.

Making it illegal also gave the $ySStem a handy way to criminalize a lot of young radicals who were essentially not criminals...and alienate them from the less radical middle class. Check, check, and mate. The $ySStem won, the general public lost. Illegal drugs were used by the $ySStem to discredit and marginalize the counterculture and the protest movement, and also to waste its youthful energy on futile endeavours ("getting high" instead of engaging in real social change).

The kids fell for it. Too bad. But really, pretty predictable. The average teenager would rather just party than change the world.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 07:30 PM

"There's a big gap between rats and humans."

But that might not remain true, once the word about this gets to the rats on the outside, and they adjust their diets accordingly.

As for paranoia, when you're a rat paranoia is a necessary condition of survival. That's true for a lot of humans too.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 05:09 PM

Not sure about utilize, but people can rationalize anything.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: bobad
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 04:59 PM

Now, now all you naysayers keep an open mind.

The fact that we have receptors for cannabinoids means that we evolved with the ability to utilize them in some manner. The scientists are attempting to find out how they function on us. The same methods were used to discover that opiates were produced by our bodies and had an important function in pain control.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 04:26 PM

This doctor goes quack quack and has relatives in Columbia named Herrera.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 01:09 PM

What a leap in logic from "nerve cells grow in rats after 10 days on HU-210" to "pot is good for you!"

BTW, perhaps the researchers could as well say that that the chemical causes rampant growth or possible tumors in the hippocampus. Certainly there is no proof that the rats think or remember better.

If you could bring back my friend's nephew, who committed suicide at 26, I would be impressed. There is no doubt that marijuana was a big factor in his death.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You Af
From: bobad
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 12:40 PM

I guess I'm just behind the times CH.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You Af
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 12:35 PM

Some of my friends 'developed' paranoia in the 60's early 70's and it was at that time attributed to pot smoking....I understand paranoia is still a side effect of pot smoking.....I believe it is best to avoid it personally...who needs it? If you are looking for excuses, why make them?...you have a choice!
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You Af
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 12:08 PM

It took from Oct 14th for you to find that????

Holy old news Batman....

Subject: BS: It Turns Out that Pot is Good for You Af
From: bobad
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 12:01 PM

Makes one consider firing up a doobie again:

Study Turns Pot Wisdom on Head

by Dawn Walton, The Globe and Mail
October 14th, 2005

Forget the stereotype about dopey potheads. It seems marijuana could be good for your brain.

While other studies have shown that periodic use of marijuana can cause memory loss and impair learning and a host of other health problems down the road, new research suggests the drug could have some benefits when administered regularly in a highly potent form.

Most "drugs of abuse" such as alcohol, heroin, cocaine and nicotine suppress growth of new brain cells. However, researchers found that cannabinoids promoted generation of new neurons in rats' hippocampuses.

Hippocampuses are the part of the brain responsible for learning and memory, and the study held true for either plant-derived or the synthetic version of cannabinoids.

"This is quite a surprise," said Xia Zhang, an associate professor with the Neuropsychiatry Research Unit at the University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon.

"Chronic use of marijuana may actually improve learning memory when the new neurons in the hippocampus can mature in two or three months," he added.

The research by Dr. Zhang and a team of international researchers is to be published in the November issue of the Journal of Clinical Investigation, but their findings are on-line now.

The scientists also noticed that cannabinoids curbed depression and anxiety, which Dr. Zhang says, suggests a correlation between neurogenesis and mood swings. (Or, it at least partly explains the feelings of relaxation and euphoria of a pot-induced high.)

Other scientists have suggested that depression is triggered when too few new brain cells are created in the hippocampus. One researcher of neuropharmacology said he was "puzzled" by the findings.

As enthusiastic as Dr. Zhang is about the potential health benefits, he warns against running out for a toke in a bid to beef up brain power or calm nerves.

The team injected laboratory rats with a synthetic substance called HU-210, which is similar, but 100 times as potent as THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol), the compound responsible for giving marijuana users a high.

They found that the rats treated regularly with a high dose of HU-210 -- twice a day for 10 days -- showed growth of neurons in the hippocampus. The researchers don't know if pot, which isn't as pure as the lab-produced version, would have the same effect.

"There's a big gap between rats and humans," Dr. Zhang points out.

But there is a lot of interest -- and controversy -- around the use of cannabinoids to improve human health.

Cannabinoids, such as marijuana and hashish, have been used to address pain, nausea, vomiting, seizures caused by epilepsy, ischemic stroke, cerebral trauma, tumours, multiple sclerosis and a host of other maladies.

There are herbal cannabinoids, which come from the cannabis plant, and the bodies of humans and animals produce endogenous cannabinoids. The substance can also be designed in the lab.

Cannabinoids can trigger the body's two cannabinoid receptors, which control the activity of various cells in the body.

One receptor, known as CB1, is found primarily in the brain. The other receptor, CB2, was thought to be found only in the immune system.

However, in a separate study to be published today in the journal Science, a group of international researchers have located the CB2 receptor in the brain stems of rats, mice and ferrets.

The brain stem is responsible for basic body function such as breathing and the gastrointestinal tract. If stimulated in a certain way, CB2 could be harnessed to eliminate the nausea and vomiting associated with post-operative analgesics or cancer and AIDS treatments, according to the researchers.

"Ultimately, new therapies could be developed as a result of these findings," said Keith Sharkey, a gastrointestinal neuroscientist at the University of Calgary, lead author of the study.

(Scientists are trying to find ways to block CB1 as a way to decrease food cravings and limit dependence on tobacco.)

When asked whether his findings explain why some swear by pot as a way to avoid the queasy feeling of a hangover, Dr. Sharkey paused and replied: "It does not explain the effects of smoked or inhaled or ingested substances."