BS: Democracy in the Mid-East

Subject: RE: BS: Democracy in the Mid-East
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 04:24 AM

Democracy in the Middle East? What a good idea. Yes, sometimes the results appear to be bad news, but we haven't got a huge number of elections to go on.

Excluding Turkey and Israel, the only places in the middle east to have held anywhere near free and fair elections are Iraq, Afganistan, and now Palestine. Ideal test cases really!

Now, given the rampant sucess of current govements in the area at controlling terrorism, finding employment for their people, educating them, etc....., how much worse can a Goverment throw up by an election be?

This may be a triumph of optimism over experience, but the people of the region know about Iran, and they can see that a theocracy doesn't solve everything....



and GUEST, 3.16, get a name, then you'll get replies.

Subject: RE: BS: Democracy in the Mid-East
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 03:16 AM

The military wing of Hamas used to be terrorists. Now that they have won a democratic election, they are a legitimate, government military force.

Whats the difference between the Hamas military and the U.S. military. Absolutely nothing except that the U.S. has bigger guns.

Subject: RE: BS: Democracy in the Mid-East
From: Amos
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 09:36 PM

Egypt Urges Hamas to End Violence and Recognize Israel

By STEVEN ERLANGER
Published: February 1, 2006
CAIRO, Feb. 1 — Egypt insisted today that Hamas renounce violence, confirm existing agreements between Israel and the Palestinians, and recognize Israel if it wants to form the next Palestinian government.

The statement, from the Egyptian intelligence chief, Omar Suleiman, was the most forceful to emerge from the Arab world. Mr. Suleiman, considered the second most powerful man in Egypt after President Hosni Mubarak, has been in charge of herding the various Palestinian factions into agreement since the death of Yasir Arafat.

Mr. Suleiman said that Hamas should: "One, stop the violence. Two, it should become doctrine with them to be committed to all the agreements signed with Israel. Three, they have to recognize Israel." If Hamas "won't commit to these conditions," he said, the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, "is not obliged to ask them to form a government."

Subject: RE: BS: Democracy in the Mid-East
From: Peace
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 09:26 PM

The money ($300,000,000) that Arafat seemed to have been holding in trust for the Palestinian people would sure be a help to those folks about now, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Democracy in the Mid-East
From: Amos
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 09:24 PM

The hope of the optimists is that int heir new context of being responsible for the operation of a government, the members of Hamas will be too busy scheduling garbage collection and finding funds for trolly lines to exercise the terrorist antics of yesteryear.

Let us pray; I don't know that such leopards CAN change their spots, and I doubt they will do so. But I am always ready to be proved wrong on that question.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Democracy in the Mid-East
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 05:17 PM

Very funny Wolfgang
(sigh) the really funny thing is that they didn't vote the way we wanted them to vote here either (sigh). Wait, what happened they did vote that way (2x?) that's not funny.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Democracy in the Mid-East
From: Arkie
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 05:08 PM

In the US the highest priority for some is a democracy that can be dominated, in present case by representatives of mega business.

Subject: RE: BS: Democracy in the Mid-East
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 04:50 PM

OK, make light of it if you will.

the Palestinian people plainly chose terrorism over corruption. great choices, huh? either way, they have made their bed...........

Subject: RE: BS: Democracy in the Mid-East
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 04:49 PM

Maybe they don't want it. Do you want to cram it down their throats anyway? All the results are not in yet on the great experiment over here.

Subject: RE: BS: Democracy in the Mid-East
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 04:46 PM

Sigh, the USA too did not vote the way we wanted.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Democracy in the Mid-East
From: mack/misophist
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 04:41 PM

Don't forget that for years, Hamas has been running day care centers, schools, and paying 'insurance awards' to the relatives of suicide bombers. Is it any wonder that they won? Often they were the de facto government.

Subject: RE: BS: Democracy in the Mid-East
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 02:40 PM

On the matter of introducing democracy into Iraq, a couple of years ago, Washington State Representative Jim McDermott (not a Bush fan by any means and strenuously opposed to the war) said, "Suppose we successfully introduce free and fair democratic elections into Iraq and they vote in a type of regime that we don't want them to have. Is the Bush administration prepared to accept that?"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Democracy in the Mid-East
From: Amos
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 02:32 PM

Thomas Friedman visiting on ABC gave what I thought was an insightful discussion on the subject relating to Iraq. Our highest priority target is for them to have a multicultural, integrated democracy. THEIR highest priority is to have a democracy they can dominate (depending on whether they are Shia or Sunni) or an independent state altogether (if they are Kurd). In the near future the internal stressors of these incompatible visions will give way to "our" integrated vision OR the whole bottom will fall out -- which I would imagine means a boiling over of civil war rather than a rule of law.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Democracy in the Mid-East
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 02:26 PM

Yes....

Well, what really needs to be done is to create a vast consumer economy in the Middle East first and give everyone there 2 wall-sized televisions with cable, CNN, DVD players, Gameboys, cellphones, and a 2 car garage, and junk food, and a rec room. Then create 2 huge political parties that are essentially almost indentical, and that represent the financial interests of those in charge of the consumer economy. Then give the local people there elections between those 2 parties, and tell them they now have "freedom"! It worked in the USA, so why not in the Middle East?

Subject: RE: BS: Democracy in the Mid-East
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 02:17 PM

LOL

Subject: BS: Democracy in the Mid-East
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 01 Feb 06 - 02:17 PM

The Hamas victory only points out that a constitutuional democracy isn't necessarily a cure-all. What we need, apparently, is a means of establishing a free and open constitutional democracy that will vote our way.