BS: Help: Info on mid 1800's passenger ships

Subject: RE: BS: Help: Info on mid 1800's passenger ships
From: Les B
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 11:56 PM

Well I just checked all seven volumes of ships leaving France from about 1805 to the 1950's at the "Immigrant Ships Transcribers Guild" - about 1/2 million passenger arrivals at all ports in US - no luck. Checked all the variations of surname spellings I could think of - it's so maddening to know that the info must be recorded somewhere, but you can't find it.

Kat - thanks for the offer. I have the bells & whistles version of Ancestry.com, and have searched many of the other on-line databases, like Heritage Quest, etc. Interesting that Ancestry got caught in a class action suit. Who woulda thunk ??

Subject: RE: BS: Help: Info on mid 1800's passenger ships
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 03:35 PM

There's a lot of this sort of information held at the Public Records Office, Ruskin Avenue, Kew, London, UK.

With your case, it may be that the baby was first brought ashore at NO, and was christened there, rather than born.

Death in childbirth was common enough on land, imagine the conditions on board a ship!

If you want a good read about ship conditions (albeit on a prison ship) try reading a book called 'The Floating Brothel' by Sian Rees. It follows the trip made by 'The Lady Julian' prison ship going to Sidney, Australia and is very informative.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Help: Info on mid 1800's passenger ships
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 03:03 PM

A woman I know can into the US through Elizabeth, New Jersey in the early 1920s. There were and are other immigrantion points as well. Mobile, Alabama; Savannah, Georgia, and Charleston, SC come immediately to mind; othe cities along the coast also accepted immigrants.

It's not likely that anyone entered the US through southern ports between late 1860 and 1865 (although New Orleans was in Union hands during much of that period).

Subject: RE: BS: Help: Info on mid 1800's passenger ships
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 02:54 PM

LesB.

1. It would take about thirty days to cross the Atlantic westbound, but ships rarely went direct to New Orleans without calling in to other ports, so it could be much longer than say fifty days. By the 1860's most would be a combination of steam and sail.

2. Entered into the ships log the birth would give the child's nationality as of the parents, but the child could claim birth in the country the ship was registered to.

3. It was common practise to bury the dead at sea, but if a person was wealthy the family might have the body preserved aboard if the means were available. Births and deaths at sea would be registered in the ships log and authorities notified on docking at the first port of call.

Subject: RE: BS: Help: Info on mid 1800's passenger ships
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 02:00 PM

Hi, Les, this is one of my favourite hobbies and I have an all-the-bells-and-whistles membership at ancestry.com, so if there is anything I can help with, please let me know by PM. I also have an extra free month with them, thansk to a class action lawsuit from shenanigans they tried on month-to-month subscribers a while back. Just got a settlement notice.:-)

Also, have you checked www.genforum? You can look at surname forums there and post queries, as well as search.

Subject: RE: BS: Help: Info on mid 1800's passenger ships
From: Les B
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 01:00 PM

Thanks all - I do have a membership in Ancestry.com, but because of problems with the surname - Vordick, Vaadock, Verdict, Fordyk and several other variations - I can't seem to find the immigration info, even in their massive bank of records. Although I hadn't thought of trying the New York ports - hmmm.

Just recently I discovered that the person whose obtituary says she was born in New Orleans, January 21, 1861 may have been born "at sea" - according to her son's statement in the 1920 census.

This pins down the ship's travel time to late 1860 or early 1861.
Unfortunately, most on-line passenger lists for New Orleans seem to end at 1850 or so.

I'm assuming the mother died in childbirth. She doesn't show up in any death records, so I'm wondering if she died at sea and was buried at sea.   Again, thanks for the ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: Help: Info on mid 1800's passenger ships
From: GUEST,Jaze
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 02:19 AM

Try Ancestry.com.

Subject: RE: BS: Help: Info on mid 1800's passenger ships
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 01:25 AM

Perhaps helpful, even if not directly:

Ellis Island History shows:

TIMELINE
pre1855- Immigration is the responsibility of the state.
1855- Castle Garden, NY is used for the influx of immigrants.
1890- Castle Garden ceases processing immigrants.
1890- The U.S. Government selects Ellis Island as the Federal Immigration Center for New York.
1892- The Ellis Island Immigration Center opens.
1897- Fire destroys the original buildings on Ellis Island.
1900- Ellis Island Immigration Center re-opens, in the building that still exists to this day.
1924- The National Origins Act dramatically reduces immigration flow.
1954- Ellis Island Immigration Center closes.

There were other immigration points that probably continued functioning into the 1860s, but you may find that persons destined for elsewhere actually "landed" at New York before proceeding to their final destination. Few records were kept by the immigration people, but the do have ship manifests that at least list departure points and dates, arrival dates, and lists of passengers with some description for identification.

There is a brief history of immigration specifically at Ellis Island that may give useful background - at least by way of suggesting how other ports of immigrant entry may have worked in the era of interest.

The site also has a link for a "free trial" access to Ancestry.com (14 days). Ancestry.com is by far the largest single search source for US ancestral records but ... Be aware that this is a "one time only" free period, not all records that they have are accessible without additional fees, and "subscribing" for regular use after the free trial is extremely expensive. (i.e. You may be able to find quite a lot, but plan your search to the extent possible before you sign up, and do it when you have time to follow as many leads as possible during your two week trial.)

A Google search on the city of arrival + "immigrant" may find similar records for other ports(?).

John

Subject: RE: BS: Help: Info on mid 1800's passenger ships
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 01:17 AM

If all went well, a sailing ship would take about a month to six weeks to reach New Orleans.
By my understanding, the baby would derive citizenship from the parents and, possibly, from the registration of the ship. If baptized ashore, the child would be a citizen of wherever the parents stated they lived unless they decided that they wished to swear allegiance to their country of arrival. It gets even more complicated as you go along. try the sites referenced above.

Subject: RE: BS: Help: Info on mid 1800's passenger ships
From: Peace
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 12:19 AM

olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/tousa1860-1870.shtml

www.cyndislist.com/ships.htm

www-personal.umich.edu/~cgaunt/pass.html

And this site may offer some possibilities for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Help: Info on mid 1800's passenger ships
From: Peace
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 12:13 AM

www.lib.lsu.edu/special/guides/no2.html

That site might be useful to you regarding question 1, Les.

Subject: BS: Help: Info on mid 1800's passenger ships
From: Les B
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 11:38 PM

This has to do with family history and I can't seem to find what I need to know on the I'net, so I'm asking Mudcatters - you're a pretty knowledgable lot!

Although it is slightly more complicated than this, what the questions boil down to are these;

1) How long would it take a passenger ship in 1860 to go from France to New Orleans, Louisiana ? (I don't know if it was sails, steam, or a combination)

2.) If a baby was born "at sea", in 1860, would they be a citizen of the place their parents were coming from, or going to, and who would issue a birth certificate, if any ??

3.) Did they bury people at sea in 1860, or would they carry them on to port. Either way, would they be likely to issue a death certificate ?

Thanks for your help.