BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 05:55 PM

Wouldn't it amount to an act of conspiracy for senators to vote to indemnify illegal activity by the President? Or is it OK because they count as being above the law?

I see that in Chile it looks as if it's been determined that the amnesty their parliament gave to Pinochet covering murder and torture and so forth isn't legal - so maybe, down the line, the USA might catch up with its southerly neighbour in this regard.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 05:53 PM

Well, there's a standard procedure we try to follow called "elections." One hopes that still works. Another method is impeachment, and there are a number of people bucking for that; works for me if they can bring it off, as long as they flush Cheney down the pipe at the same time. But that depends a lot on the makeup of Congress at the time.

Or whatever it takes. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: TIA
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 04:49 PM

We would need guns. Lots and lots of guns.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 04:02 PM

My last remark here for today. The White House is owned by the American people. Why do you not tell the fu#ker to get the hell out of your house?

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 03:59 PM

Me too. It is anything but funny. America's democracy has been being hijacked, and it's almost like no one can be arsed to care. I do not understand why people are not marching on Washington, marching on their Congress, offices of their Senators in their States. If the Yanks don't care about it, for bloody sure they will lose it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: TIA
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 03:55 PM

They don't HAVE to be accountable if the elections are total frauds that LOOK just like democracy in action. They are only accountable to the people who can best game the electronic voting system.

Damn, I wish this was just a facetious exchange.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 03:49 PM

But how will the New World Order come about if elected officials are held accountable for what they do?You folks are getting a bit radical here.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: TIA
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 03:44 PM

IMHO, this is the "conspiracy theory" that should be getting ALL the attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: TIA
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 03:42 PM

Not necessarily our representatives. But they sure as hell represent someone.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 03:08 PM

They are the representatives of the American voters and their actions are done on your behalf. Scary, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: Barry Finn
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 02:42 PM

Guest, this isn't about 9/11, or Democrats vs Republicans or the Patriot Act, granted though those are other battles that need to be waged & battles that need to be picked,, too. It's about a president commit illegal acts & then looking to have the laws changed after the fact in order to excuse him & any others involved in said criminal actions or wrong doings. Their are no checks, balances or consquences here. Why bother having laws, why bother having a legal system? If this can happen why even have a high court? Might as well have Marshal Law & close the books.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 01:32 PM

This has nothing to do with Republicans vs. Democrats. They passed the Real I.D. Act 100-0 in the U.S. Senate. Will require you to have an internal passport to walk the streets of America (your papers please). They voted almost unanimously for the PATRIOT Act, which legalizes "disappearing" you. The Reps & Dems have done this together. They are two steroid apes pulling their punches while they pretend to slap each other upside the head in the political arena. You enjoy being screwed. You enjoy the feeling of powerlessness. Of course the people in charge are going to take every advantage they can get.

But they overreached with Sept 11. It is provable that it was done by the gangsters still occupying their seats of power. Focus on that one issue, and the rest will take care of itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 01:11 PM

Spector is my Senator. I have been writing back and forth with him (well, probably some staffer) for two weeks on this. He (they) are being responsive, but still seem to be going ahead.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 12:56 PM

But you can be "indemnified", which I think is the correct legal term for legislating sure that illegal acts by certain people in certain circumstances cannot be judged to be illegal.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 09:36 AM

You can't be pardoned until after you're convicted.

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 09:24 AM

I haven't seen anything, Barry, but i don't get that much news, unless it's online. I did get this from moveon and signed it. Thanks for getting it out to others.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: Barry Finn
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 03:26 AM

Has anyone heard any of this from the media?

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: harpmolly
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 03:16 AM

I'm all over that like a cheap suit, as my mother sometimes likes to say.

I've been getting more and more exasperated as time goes on at the bullshit that is going on right under our noses. Give me a break! The very fact that they're even DISCUSSING a pardon totally underlines the fact that they BROKE THE LAW. And yet, consequences schmonsequences, it seems.

Barry, I'm totally with you. I'm gonna call my dad and say, "Hey, let's steal your boat back from the friend you sold it to and set sail for the high seas! Just call me Pippi Longstocking!"

Molly

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: Barry Finn
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 01:27 AM

Hi Annamill
That's what I'm thinking too! Kill me? I've seen death 4 times now, not a scary threat anymore. If I have to worry about signing a petition at this point I might as well slit my own throat or better yet sell the farm & go to sea, go anywhere but US Costal Waters where I can once again fell safe.

I'm am feeling well, thanks for asking, how are you & the rock boy doing?
See you soon, somewhere. Here's to hoping.
LOL
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: annamill
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 12:33 AM

Screw it! I'm 61, soon 62. Not much they can do now.

Barry, I'm in!

Love, Annamill

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: annamill
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 12:22 AM

Wow! This scary. I went to the site to sign my name and then the thought occurred to me that there might be ramifications if I signed my name. Shades of Macarthyism and Nazizm.

Do you think I could have a problem if I signed this and then the bill went thru?? Would I just disappear, never to be heard from again?
A security risk??

You know, it could happen in todays America.

Yup, scary.

If I'm being incredibly stupid, please let me know. I would feel so much better.

Love, Annamill (Hope you're well, Barry)

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 09:49 PM

Already done. I have little faith in petitions but we do what we can. In this case, I gave you CLICKY FOR http://pol.moveon.org/dontpardon/?id=8810-3971286-52qPQi4nPHZupTMJoqubtA&t=3 in your post twice Barry. Karen has already signed as well.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 08:25 PM

Signed and sent. Thanks for the heads up on this, Barry.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 08:11 PM

I would, but being out of the USA and not American means it would have no validity. I hope the bastard gets impeached.

Subject: BS: Bush about to be pardoned by Senate
From: Barry Finn
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 08:07 PM

If this don't beat all. The Senate will hear this week the Cheney-Specter bill. Again has anybody seen of this in the news? Maybe you can help & sign this. Now we don't even get a kiss & a thank you when we're getting screwed. Do they think we're all on date rape drugs & that we won't know or won't speak up. I'm sick of being treated as a republican's page boy.

Barry

See this from MoveOn.org (complete with links to sources)

"This week, the Senate will vote on whether to pardon President Bush for breaking the law by illegally wiretapping innocent Americans. Can you sign the petition opposing the Republican move to pardon President Bush for breaking the law?"



"This week, the Senate is planning to quietly hold a vote that would pardon President Bush for breaking the law by illegally wiretapping innocent Americans without warrants. According to Senator Leahy, the bill would "...immunize officials who have violated federal law by authorizing such illegal activities."1

President Bush broke the law, and courts are starting to agree. Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter once said the program was illegal "on its face." But he has now caved to pressure from Vice President Cheney, and introduced legislation that marks a new low: the bill justifies everything the president did. Worse, it makes it legal to wiretap Americans, in secret, without warrants or oversight, whenever the administration wants to.2

So far, Democrats and some Republicans are holding strong against the bill, and there are good chances to stop it if enough of us speak up. Can you sign the petition opposing the Republican move to pardon President Bush for breaking the law?

http://pol.moveon.org/dontpardon/?id=8810-3971286-52qPQi4nPHZupTMJoqubtA&t=3

Many legal experts agree that the president's program to wiretap Americans who have nothing to do with terrorism violates the law. President Bush already has the authority to wiretap suspected terrorists—and we support that. In fact, his administration can tap anyone it likes as long as it gets an OK from a court a few days later.

Congress should be trying to hold him accountable—that's their job. Instead, some Republicans are trying to let President Bush off the hook completely. In fact, the legislation would give the president even more unchecked power.

Here are some quick facts about the Cheney-Specter bill:

It allows President Bush—and every president after him—to wiretap Americans indefinitely, in secret, without a warrant and without any oversight.
3 It effectively pardons the president for any illegal behavior by forcing Congress to concede that he has the inherent authority to conduct the program
4—something federal courts, numerous legal experts and many leading Republicans disagree with.
5 It completely guts FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) which has protected the privacy of Americans against illegal wiretaps for close to 30 years.
6 It prevents any legal challenges from taking place in the public court system. Instead, it moves all cases to a secret court, where only Bush administration officials can argue it.
7 It would help "immunize" any officials who broke the law in this program from being held accountable in the future.
8 Since the program was exposed in December of last year, we've learned that President Bush personally blocked a Justice Department investigation of the program, Vice President Cheney also personally intervened to stop telecom companies from testifying to Congress about it, and a federal court recently ruled the program unconstitutional.
9 In an effort to protect himself from further consequences, the president is pressuring Congress to let him off the hook.

This is an important issue and it will help remind Americans, in an election year, what Republicans are all about—accumulating power for themselves, and trampling the system of checks and balances designed to stop that. Can you sign the petition today?

http://pol.moveon.org/dontpardon/?id=8810-3971286-52qPQi4nPHZupTMJoqubtA&t=3

It's the Senate's job to act as a check on the president's power. If they can't do it, they shouldn't be in Washington.

Thanks for all you do,

–Nita, Eli, Jennifer, Wes and the MoveOn.org Political Action Team
Monday, September 18th, 2006

Sources:

1. "Today's Republican circus trick: Legislating in the Dark," Senator Leahy, provided by the Bill of Rights Defense Committee, September 13, 2006
http://www.bordc.org/threats/leahy91306.php

"NSA Whitewash Passes Judiciary Committee on Party-Line Vote," People for the American Way, September 13, 2006
http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=22373

2. "NSA Whitewash Passes Judiciary Committee on Party-Line Vote," People for the American Way, September 13, 2006
http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=22373

3. "Top 5 things Sen. Specter won't tell you about the Cheney-Specter bill," ACLU
http://action.aclu.org/site/PageServer?pagename=SpecterTop5

4. ACLU Letter to the Senate Regarding Strong Opposition to the Substitute Version of S. 2453, the "National Security Surveillance Act of 2006" May 16, 2006
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/nsaspying/25578leg20060516.html

**Note: The bill has changed slightly from when this letter was written, however the sections accepting the president's claim of inherent authority remains

5."Judge Rules Against Wiretaps," Washington Post, August 18, 2005
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=2096&id=8810-3971286-52qPQi4nPHZupTMJoqubtA&t=4

"On NSA Spying: A Letter to Congress," New York Review of Books, February 9, 2006
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18650

McCain: Bush Does Not Have "The Legal Authority To Engage In These Warrantless Wiretaps," ThinkProgress, January 22, 2006
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/01/22/mccain-wiretaps-illegal/

6. "Top 5 things Sen. Specter won't tell you about the Cheney-Specter bill," ACLU
http://action.aclu.org/site/PageServer?pagename=SpecterTop5

7. "NSA Bill Performs a Patriot Act," Wire News, September 13, 2006
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,71778-1.html?tw=wn_story_page_next1

8. "Today's Republican circus trick: Legislating in the Dark," Senator Leahy, provided by the Bill of Rights Defense Committee, September 13, 2006
http://www.bordc.org/threats/leahy91306.php

9. ACLU Slams Senate Judiciary Committee Approval of NSA Spying Bills, ACLU, September 13, 2006
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/nsaspying/26722prs20060913.html