BS: Congratulations, America!

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 07:36 PM

Yeah, I agree with Alice that the strongest Dem ticket will be Edwards/Obama but...

...unless I see some spine outta the Dems over the next year, I'll be votin' Green...

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: Deckman
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 05:45 PM

Dear "Mr. Harlow",

I think your comments are very interesting. I find myself going back and forth between: but he's got NO proven record ... and ... that's probably a damned GOOD thing!

All in all, I find it somewhat sad that we HAVE to look at a political "stranger" to find anything to get excited about? Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 05:33 PM

His breakthrough hit was his speech at the 2004 Democrat Convention.

Here's Part I of it on YouTube
And here is Part II

Struck me that, when it comes to making a winning speech, which manages to be non-grandiose and inspirational at the same time, he's up there with Tony Blair in the early days. Mind that's a two-edged compliment.

I can't see where lack of experience really comes into it. After all, Bush had what on paper looks like quite a lot of relevant experience, and look what you got there? And if he's on the right of his party, isn't that going to apply to any candidate selected by the Democrats?

His big problem is he looks about 12. Plus, I imagine there are still a fair number of voters who would always find some reason not to vote for a "black" man.

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 03:59 PM

Richard Bridge asserted:

How about judges gaining post by open examination? The best lawyers get to be judges.

No, the best lawyers don't make the best judges. A good lawyer, besides knowing the law, has to be a dedicated advocate of his client. The personality that makes the best trial advocate tends to be the opposite of the "judicial temperament". Yes, of course there are exceptions, but that's what they are--exceptions.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 03:32 PM

I saw a cartoon that has Karl Rove reporting to Bush: 'The Democrats are excited about Obama running for president.'

Bush sits there confused and disgruntled while the thought bubble over his head shows Osama sitting on the presidential chair.

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 02:44 PM

Id say give Obama more time.
Joe Biden would be a good candidate for 08

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 11:35 AM

I've only heard him in one in-depth interview, and was not impressed. He's simply a nice earnest fellow who means well. So what. He's never run any sizeable organization, and he has no fresh ideas. But he's black, and the limousine liberals would like to elect a black president to prove how enlightened they are. America deserves better, and what it deserves most is dismantled electoral and congressional rules, and a 3 or 4 party system.

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 11:35 AM

And another thing--the corporate controlled mainstream media isn't talking about the REAL systemic changes voters went for this year.

Which is why the citizenry needs to take back control of the airwaves. The politicians gave corporations far too much control over the airwaves we taxpayers own.

Some stories going unreported:

States that put upping the minimum wage on their ballots (min wage hasn't been raised since the Republicans took over Washington). It passed in every single state where it was on the ballot.

Municipalities that passed IRV, which would open the door to the biggest reforms in electoral politics in this country since the Gilded Age, and the citizen's ballot initiative and referendum process (in response to Gilded Age political and electoral corruption) came into being in 1902.

Transportation and energy-related initiatives and referendums that passed.

Eminent domain was the top ballot issue--it was on the ballot in 11 states.

Many voters actually approved tax increases.

The reason why these issues (minimum wage, eminent domain, tax increases, tarnsportation and energy) got put on the ballot in so many places, is because the politicians are not doing their jobs. So citizens do have the right in many (not all) places to go around do nothing politicians, and get these legislative and constitutional reforms on the ballot when their politicians are not serving THEIR interests.

We have been under the heel of the corporate jack boot for so long, most voters no longer even question why our government is serving the needs of corporations instead of it's citizenry.

It's time for a lot of sweeping change to happen. Non-partisan change, not "bi-partisan" change.

Don't be fooled by "bi-partisan". Anything that is "bi-partisan" is still partisan, because it supports and props up the hopelessly corrupted two party system.

Everyone knows what cowards politicians are when it comes to stewardship of our transportation and energy tax dollars.

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 11:08 AM

Alice, that is all well and good. However, as Richard Bridge pointed out, there is this trap that has conveniently been laid at our feet, hoping we won't be paying close attention to our next few steps.

The center of American politics has moved very far right since 1980. It is deemed quite reasonable for people to move to the right, but NEVER to the left, no matter how far right they might be.

That has been the result of probably the most successful propaganda campaign in world history (I really do believe historians will see it that way), which has been the propaganda campaign waged by a coalition of conservative politicians of both parties, business interests, and corporate controlled media to demonize and dismantle progressive changes in national governance in the FDR & JFK/Johnson eras.

For example, there was an interestng little piece Elizabeth Vargas did on the ABC newsmagazine the other night, on government services that provide day care for working families. Not just for single mothers, but for all working families. Over 70% of American families now have both parents AND the vast majority of single parents (not all of whom are women) working outside the home over 40 hours per week.

There are currently only 4 countries on the planet that do not provide child care as a government service, just like public education. Here is the link. The US is one of them.

Why do most Americans not know how BAD we actually have it here, in the richest country on earth, in the entire history of the world?

Why do most Americans not realize how BADLY OFF we are, not only in comparison to the rest of the industrialized world when it comes to government services for our tax dollars, but also how badly off we are now compared to how well off we used to be before the Republicans took over in 1980, and began dismantling the New Deal and Great Society government reforms?

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: Alice
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 10:47 AM

Wikipedia bio of Barack Obama
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#Early_life_and_career
He also podcasts from his Senate web site and personally participates in online discussions.

"...Hill Monitor, a nonpartisan vote tracking group, ranked Obama fourth in frequency of voting with the majority of his party during the 109th Congress, as of the current legislative recess for midterm elections. Obama's rank follows Democratic Party Senators Mikulski (D-MD), Sarbanes (D-MD), and Durbin (D-IL)

Music related ;-)
Obama has been mentioned in songs by Neil Young[89] and the rapper Common who, in the remix of the Jadakiss hit "Why", asked "Why is Bush acting like he trying to get Osama? Why don't we impeach him and elect Obama?"


From the Keynote Address at the Democratic Convention:
After describing his maternal grandfather's experiences as a World War II veteran and a beneficiary of the New Deal's FHA and GI Bill programs, Obama said:


No, people don't expect government to solve all their problems. But they sense, deep in their bones, that with just a slight change in priorities, we can make sure that every child in America has a decent shot at life, and that the doors of opportunity remain open to all. They know we can do better. And they want that choice.


Questioning the Bush administration's handling of the Iraq War, Obama spoke of an enlisted Marine, Corporal Seamus Ahern from East Moline, Illinois, asking, "Are we serving Seamus as well as he was serving us?" He continued:


When we send our young men and women into harm's way, we have a solemn obligation not to fudge the numbers or shade the truth about why they're going, to care for their families while they're gone, to tend to the soldiers upon their return, and to never ever go to war without enough troops to win the war, secure the peace, and earn the respect of the world.


Finally he spoke for national unity:


The pundits like to slice-and-dice our country into Red States and Blue States; Red States for Republicans, Blue States for Democrats. But I've got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the Blue States, and we don't like federal agents poking around our libraries in the Red States. We coach Little League in the Blue States and have gay friends in the Red States. There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq and patriots who supported it. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America.

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 09:53 AM

Obama is a DLC Republicrat to the core. However, he is the very first rock star DLC Republicrat, hence the fuss.

As Richard Bridge pointed out, he is in reality very right of center on many issues.

He is a soundbyte and style over substance politician, IMO. I was glad to see that Harold Ford, the other "rising star" African American DLC Republicrat, who had served a couple terms in the House, lost in his bid for a Senate seat this year.

I don't know why Democrats don't have it on their radar yet that the most conservative wing of the Democratic party these days is largely the African American middle class.

I'll stick with the Feingold/Harkin wing of the Democratic party, thank you very much.

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: Deckman
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 07:33 AM

Obama certainly is interesting. But, I think he reflects (maybe?) just how desperate many voters are to hitch their wagons to someone who appears to be honest and with vision. I know that sounds cynical, and maybe it is. At this moment, I see him as more of a celebrity than a leader. As Amos said earlier, "It's hard to tell (yet) how he'd be as a leader." And as long as I'm being cynical: He's obviously insane because only an insane person would want the mess that President bush has given us. CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 03:46 AM

I agree that America must not fall into the trap of trying to find a middle ground, especially when it comes to leaders. The American people have voiced their opposition to Christian fundamentalist/Neo cons and I say strike while the iron is hot.

Elect someone fresh. Someone young with vision. Wise elders are great for diplomacy, economics, and a host of other intellectual pursuits where experience is a big bonus but I think it is the youth vote that will make the difference in the next election. Build the House and Senate with more democrats but make sure your next president has vision and can instill hope for a better tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 02:48 AM

Oh, yes, there is one other really big thing. Judges must be independent of the state. It is one of the keystones of a political system where the rule of law applies. Election of judges in political ballots, the appointment of Supreme Court judges on political grounds - these things have to go if America is to be come a constitutional democracy.

How about judges gaining post by open examination? The best lawyers get to be judges. Surely that would be a good thing. Some would need to be disqualified for various turpitudes, but the principle should be clear - no politics in judicial office.

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 02:43 AM

He more than (IMHO) flirted with the devil in his campaign, apparently espousing various points of view and beliefs that are widely seen as republican.

America is to be congratulated on its seeming rejection of the lunatic Christian political right, and of the neocons (who while on the lunatic political right were not always Christians), but it may have fallen for the Blair trap, in that the "centre ground" which has long been far to the right of most of the rest of the world seems to have moved yet further to the right.

America may have spoken from a distaste for "the lies and the greed of the leaders of men" (Go on Mudcat, attribute the quote) but although it needs to extricate itself from its colonial wars, to accept gender equality, to learn to care for and help its poor, its huddled masses, it needs, I think, more than anything else, to heal its "democracy", to ensure representation, to restore equal freedom under law, to remove "Henry VIII" powers from its leaders, to make its political processes transparent; and to control the political power of religious blocs as part of the separation of church and state.

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 02:27 AM

Never heard of him. Who is he?

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: Alice
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 10:51 PM

My pick at this point, John Edwards for Pres, Obama for VP.

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: Amos
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 10:36 PM

He's smart and articulate and humane. On the other hand, it's hard to say what kind of a leader he would make.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 10:35 PM

I like him but I'd like to see him ripen a bit longer. As young as he is, he has time to become more statesman like.

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 08:37 PM

Obama gets a ton of coverage here. He is all over the network talk shows. He was one of the most popular stump speakers all during the season. And there is a chance he will run for President.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: number 6
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 08:34 PM

He gets lots of coverage on CNN.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 08:29 PM

He gets a LOT of US coverage.

~S~

Subject: BS: Congratulations, America!
From: dianavan
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 08:27 PM

You have definitely sent a strong message to your president. Now how about giving a message to the rest of the world and elect someone who can carry the torch of hope - Barack Obama.

I want to hear more about this guy. He gets alot more coverage in Canada than he does in the U.S. but I hear nothing on Mudcat. So...is he as good as he seems?