BS: Downshifting

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Gulliver
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:56 AM

Yes, I've thought about storage, but just until I get more settled, not long-term. Also about buying a small place in Ireland (perhaps out in the sticks somewhere, where it's cheaper), storing my stuff there, and perhaps renting out a room for the times I won't be there. I did this in Germany during the time I was living in Italy and it worked out very well. Still need to downsize though. I found a number of "de-clutter" sites on the web that have some good ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 07:09 PM

A definite aside here: In Juneau, Alaska, if I had the money I would build storage units. Practically everybody in Juneau has a storage unit and although there are numerous storage businesses here more are going up all the time.

A heated unit, 9 x 15, runs about $110 per month, the last I knew. A 5x7 went for 56.00

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: LilyFestre
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 03:22 PM

Hey Gulliver,

   I don't know if this is an option for you or something you would consider what about storing some of it? You don't have to have it with you ALL the time and you can easily (if you organize your boxes and keep a list of general contents) access it when you decide you need more or maybe want to switch a box or two of books for another. It's not terribly expensive to rent storage units in the US, I don't know about overseas though.

LQF

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Gulliver
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 02:26 PM

For years I "upsized", moving from city to city then from country to country accumulating stuff all the way. Everything--books, LPs, CDs, videos, pictures, souvenirs, instruments, etc. were memories of where I'd been and what I'd done. When I moved from Germany back to Ireland 10 years ago I had almost 100 large boxes, plus the furniture--far too much!

Now I'm selling the large house in Dublin and thinking of buying property in Spain. I need to radically downsize, but can't bear to part with my "treasures"! I'm glad I found this thread though...

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: LilyFestre
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 01:06 PM

All clothing that I don't like, don't like how it fits or has been sitting for a long time doing nothing more than taking up space goes to the Salvation Army. Clothes don't really do well at yard sales.

LQF

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: LilyFestre
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 01:03 PM

Family, friends and myself have been slowly gathering things for a giant yard sale. We have a place to put everything that is boxed and priced until the yard sale. While I am a new participant to this yard sale, it is an annual event that always has a great turnout with everyone making a substantial amount of money. Anyone who has items in the yard sale must work the sale...no biggie. A picnic lunch is already planned for each day. An extra bonus besides being a well known annual yard sale is that it is held in a large garage....rain or shine, the sale is ON!

Knowing that this is coming up has been an additional motivator for cleaning out and getting rid of things that are no longer used.

LQF

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 12:38 PM

A year ago I moved from a three-story house to this studio apartment (living room/bedroom, kitchen and bath). I shucked a lot of stuff.

One of the best things I did was to finally go through the photo boxes and pitch everything that was repetitive, seriously unflattering to others, uninteresting or unidentifiable - I got rid of easily 20 pounds right there. Of course I still have the negatives but I doubt that I'll keep them indefinitely. One thought that keeps recurring is that after I'm gone, very few of those pictures will be saved, so why do I need them?

Getting rid of books is harder. Over the years I've done some serious culling, but books, per se, have deep roots and keep springing back. At the moment the amount is manageable but eventually I will be donating specific items to the public library as I've done in the past. It's easier to let them go there- not only does the library get some expensive books that way but I can also reread them whenever I wish.

Books in good condition but not particularly memorable to me I donate to Friends of the Library.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: GUEST,Noddy
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 05:32 AM

Make sure your van has a tail Lift! And try to get a stacker trolley to shift the washine machine!
The removals will take longer than you think. Get a friend or three to help out.
You can drive a 3 tonner on a standard licence but ubless you have done it before it is SCARY.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 03:53 PM

progress clearing the clutter sounds like a good step in any measure, and probably it's a big measure!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 03:14 PM

WYSIWYG, I'm making progress clearing the clutter but I haven't made any major steps as described by Michael of Manitoba, although I did change from full-time work to part-time work a few years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: fat B****rd
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 03:11 PM

We have 10 bloody heavy boxes full and taped. My son in law says just get a "Luton" van and save hundreds of pounds" HE hasn't seen how much stuff we'll have to move even after throwing out/leaving bits and pieces.
WE think "Pickfords" or whoever has the big vans.
House sale looking good but not signed yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 01:11 PM

How's everybody coming along? I pitched a boxful of floppies today from a time period gone by; as Iindicated above I know I have hardcopy for anything really interresting/useful from that time. I saved a few whose labels still reminded me of anything I might want in text form; I pitched anything whose label didn't even ring a bell as well as time-sensitive itms that are now obsolete. And now that Mudcat Big Crash is mostly fixed, I pitched some thread/PM backups.

LOL-- I guess another layer of When to Discard is when neither the media label nor the hardcopy box label ring a bell! :~) By the time my mind is gone, therefore, it should all be gone and not trouble my heirs at cleanup time!

That is, if someone reminds me to look through and purge stuff!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: fat B****rd
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 03:44 PM

WE started this morning. I'm an experienced packer. so, with blunt Stanley and broad tape I assembled a couple of cardboard boxes (courtesy of the good folks at Poundstretcher) and proceed to fill them with books etc. Then it was time to sort out VINYL !!!
I let go a few things I've got on CD but there were still some emotional moments as I wondered how much I could get for some of the others on Ebay.
Anyway. I'm enjoying all the threads, to-morrow we have 10 cartons for me to tape up and fill.
Pity we haven't sold the house yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:49 AM

We had two houses, one a typical three bed semi, the other a one bed cottage for weekends etc. I lost my job and we had to downshift.We sold the three bed semi and put most of the furniture into store and moved into the one bed cottage.. We sold some bits of furniture and did a bit of a clear out, car boot sales charity shops and some to the dump.
Now 4 months on we hardly miss most of the stuff in the store. Last week we took half out and are currently sifting through it to sell.
It is difficult and very painful but we realised that if the things are in a store for four months we do not realy need them.
You have to be ruthless with yourself and dump all emotional ties with your belongings to do it. We are still coming to terms with it and getting through it if only slowly.
We are happier ,less stressed and still manage to have holidays in exotic places.
Our income is about 15% of what it was this time last year.

So go for it but plan it and do not rush it mistakes can be costly, in time and stress.
We made a few and will make more but are heading in the right direction.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: gnomad
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 05:42 PM

Go for it.

I am lucky in that I got myself reasonably financially secure doing a professional job I disliked in a city I thoroughly disliked, but then suddenly had my job exported to Malaysia, and myself made redundant.

I moved to a small flat in a tourist town I love. I can now walk to work, do a job with lower pay and much lower stress (boat trips for visitors) and am significantly happier. My friends tell me how much better I look these days, though that just tells me I must have been looking awful, and despite working harder I find I have more time to do the things I want to.

The process has taken about 18 months so far; I still have rather more stuff with me than the flat will comfortably contain, so I will be a good source for the charity shops for a while yet, and I really should do a bit of decorating sometime soon. I would not go back.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Michael from Manitoba
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:10 PM

Go for it, enjay, but do the research. I wish I'd made the move decades earlier than I did.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 10:24 AM

Michael from Manitoba, you are right - it's the whole thing that I am hoping to eventually achieve.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:36 PM

Down shift....rev the engine just a tad, then let it fall off. Move the shift lever down, then push on the accelerator.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Michael from Manitoba
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 09:16 PM

To me, there seems to be two threads within this same thread. I understand Downsizing to mean getting rid of clutter and perhaps moving to smaller living quarters, as often happens when the kids leave home. I would define Downshifting as more comprehensive, and involves taking a less pressured job, lower salary, becoming more self-reliant. I have the impression it's the latter eanjay is referring to.
I made this kind of move about twenty years ago, when my wife and I self-built a modest house on some rural property we owned. Along with the shift from the city came a change in employment - a mix of home-based business and outside contract work.
There are downsides to downshifting. There's the danger one can find oneself in a "green ghetto", with not enough money to do the things one wants to do (or even meet the basic bills). And you really find out who your real friends are. Everyone comes to visit, once.
The rewards, in my book, outweight the disadvantages. Today, there's a wealth of advice to be had on the web and on forums like this.
Good luck to ya!

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 07:18 PM

I got to thinking about the awfulness of cleaning out my mom's house, top to bottom, in just 5 days. It was 'only' a 5 room house (counting the bathroom) but boy did she have Stuff. Stuff everywhere and the Army wanted my brother back. We did it, but it wasn't fun.

Then I got to thinking about my own mortality, and what the kids might want. If I didn't want it, I asked them. No, it's ugly. HELL no, I don't want it! Off it went somewhere. Bin, recycle, charity shop, friend.

If it was a family heirloom or expensive collectible of my moms it got kept. I'd make the kids take what they want now, but one lives here (again) and the other is in a tiny mobile home and pays rent on storage space for his own stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Greg B
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:17 PM

First off, you must buy the entire boxed set of the TV series
'Good Neighbors'

Of course my partiality to it is somehow involved in my
adolesence and Felicity Kendall---

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 04:29 PM

Good for you!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 02:30 PM

WYSIWYG, I don't think anybody would have thought you were suggesting anybody here had the disorder. I only mentioned it because when I've seen programmes on it I've always thought how easy it would be to clear the stuff but I haven't got anything like that amount of clutter or rubbish and I can't even clear mine so it isn't easy to do and it makes you realise how difficult it must be for people who do have that disorder. I have been inspired by the responses to make a start with mine. I'm already watching my spending (I've been doing that for a few months now) and before I buy anything I ask myself, "Do I really need it, have I already got one that I've forgotten about and can't find and where will I put it if I do get it?"

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 02:18 PM

I hope you discover what will work for you, and DO IT. I sure didn't mean to suggest that anyone here, in particular, suffers from that disorder, but it is one end of a wide spectrum and I know where my own inattention to order could lead me.

I know my reformed status is in jeopardy, for example, when the clean clothes don't make it up onto the shelf but a whole laundry cycle goes by with me hastily pulling clean, folded clothes from the hamper and throwing them, once dirty, on the floor because the hamper is still full of clean, folded clothes I could have put on the empty, well-organized shelves 12 inches away. (In the first-floor bathroom, where I dress and get ready for bed.)

When that gets out of hand, and the small bathroom floor feels crowded, I know I've been too busy to take proper care of myself in that respect and probably several others linked to care of person. The same untended clothing habit, in a bedroom, could go on many days longer before it bothered me. Such is my early-warning system I use to trick myself into getting back on track.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:46 AM

I've seen programmes on obsessive-complusive hoarding where even bin rubbish is not thrown out. It must be desperately difficult to live like that. I'm not in that league but do agree that you need to be ruthless at times and well organised and it isn't always easy to start; but I have found some useful tips here.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Scrump
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:45 AM

Good advice, but it's a question of priorities. I suspect most of us will wait until nearer the time when we need to do it. This is what's happened to the aged relative I mentioned above. He's probably left it too late to do it himself.

The problem I have is that this always seems to be bottom of the list of things to do. One day it will suddenty become top of the list, and I won't be ready. But at least I'm aware that's the case, and that's a start.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:44 AM

For a realistic reformed-messy approach to paper management, here's my post in the Neat or Messy? thread.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:38 AM

Sounds good, WYSIWYG, but it does sound as if it all takes a lot of time, something I don't seem to have much of to spare!

A wise friend once said, It takes longer, if you don't start.

The method I outlined does take time, but not all at once, and that's the beauty of it-- it only takes as much time as you are willing to give it. If you move it offsite, you can procrastinate the beginning until your commitment level rises. It WILL rise, if the better-organized space you give yourself to replace the cleared-out mess receives regular upkeep. That's where commitment has a chance to grow.

Of course there is also a disorder known as obsessive-complusive hoarding. I've had friend who had only a narrow path between shoulder-high towers of accumulated "treasures" to get from their shoulder-deep bedroom to their newborn baby's crib-- which was, itself, set in the midst of shoulder-high towers of stuff. I was the only person they'd allowed into their house in years. Their older girls were pretty frantic about how they were living thanks to the yoked-together OCD disorders of their two parents. I got the family to work on this.... Because of the OCD I knew I would not get far-- with the parents. (They needed meds they were unwilling to try.) But I knew that because I involved them while I was there, the girls learned how to deal with their stuff. They gained skills I hope they used once they were old enough to move out.

Again: It takes longer, if you don't start.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Scrump
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 09:42 AM

Sounds good, WYSIWYG, but it does sound as if it all takes a lot of time, something I don't seem to have much of to spare!

One wasy to keep clutter down is to actually move house. Our problem is we've lived in the same house for a long time, and my theory is, the longer you live somewhere, the more clutter you collect. Moving house forces you to throw stuff out, or at least sort it out as you move.

Because we've lived in the same house 'too long', we've collected too much stuff, and that makes the prospect of moving more terrible - it's certainly a viscious circle.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 09:34 AM

Keep asking, Why am I keeping this? Do I use it? Does it have sentimental value? Monetary value? Have I worn it in 5 years? Does it still fit? etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 09:25 AM

I can relate. I'm reformed. Over the years I've helped a lot of friends get a grip on this "Stuff" issue.

Start by watching a TV show about organizing, and note the steps they break the process down into. One of the most effective steps is to clear up the entire contents of a room, removing it without making any attempt to sort it, to a neutral working area. It helps th break the attachment to the clutter staying in place, just the act of moving it.

It will not FEEL that way as you contemplate it, but if you try it, and have friends bring you empty boxes and help you crate it all up, you will look back and see I'm right and that you feel much better. You'll be confident that you are better able to manage the stuff.

From there, you can sort the whole lot into basic categories. Each time you sort, you have to pick up and move each item, over and over as you break the broad categories down further. You will be surprised to find how quickly you become willing to let go of a thing you have picked up and moved 5-6 times. :~) Eventually a lot of those items become items you are willing to give away or throw out.

Another great tip is to USE YOUR TECHNOLOGY. Rent a big, roomy storage locker to be your work space, as long as you can find one where you are not committed to a whole year's rent. (Wait till spring weather for this one!) The first item to put in the locker is a cheap worktable and comfy chair, a couple of white sheets, some thumb tacks, empty boxes, some markers, and some white address lables you will use to label and re-label boxes. As you sort things, take digital pix so that even if you get rid of an item eventually, you can know ahead of time that you will always have the picture to remember it by. You also can take pix of items grouped and ready to box for longterm storage, number the box with the pix's automatic filenaming number from the camera, and know which box to look in later for items you intend to leave in storage. Treasured itmes you let go of can always be printed and framed for display, to make a permanent memento of dear grannies' afghan that you might have kept if the cat hadn;t made it smell so bad. :~)

If you cull and cull items, faithfully doing this, you will eventually get down to a much smaller number of boxes than you started with. At that point you can either keep the locker and start on a second room, move to a smaller one, or take it all home to a storage area you can set up, there.

Having moved the roomful of stuff offsite, you will have a nice empty space you can start over with where the mess used to be. You can use standard organizers' tips to arrange it and maintain it. You will not have to look at the mess, or live in it, and you can go work on it with music to listen to, in a place you can work as long or as briefly as suits you-- then loick it up when you've had too much and leave it all behind to another day.

For a simple, easily-maintained approach to paper organizing, see my post of a few weeks ago (?) about that-- search on my membername here on my post, to bring up my posting history.

Another great tip-- some days you will just not be able to think about what to keep, or where to put it. Don't waste your time on those days arguing with yourself, beating up on yourself about how bad you are, trying to persuade yourself how much you need to organize your stuff, or how you SHOULD do this or that. Nope, change your focus! Those days are Purging Days, where your goal is to compete with yourself to see how many trash bags you can fill up and how far you can throw them. Change the goal from whatever goal has you stuck, to a more do-able goal of Creating Trash. One day, for instance, I Created so much Trash that it filled a small construction dumpster. Instead of thinking, "SHOULD I keep this, or that?" I made myself think of it in terms of, "CAN I please stuff this into a bag?"

~Been there, Successfully done that

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 04:06 AM

I want to be like Captain Ginger but at the moment I'm like Liz the Squeak - I've even bought the plastic boxes so I'm ready to go but I don't know where to start!

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 03:32 AM

The mind boggles!
I can only imagine such a set-up, but it must be expensive if you keep having to buy things because you can't find one you've already got under the mess! I think I would probably go made in such a household.
I have 18 screwdrivers and I know exactly in what toolbox and in what drawer in the workshop I can find them, and if one is missing I will want to know why.
The simplest maxim to aid decluttering is one my mother-in-law was fond of quoting - 'Don't put it down; put it away.'
Admin is important, and just five minutes a day can change your life. Clutter and mess provokes frustration and depression, so five minutes' daily admin can actually make you feel better.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 05:11 PM

Start a room at a time and resist the temptation to just move stuff from room to room. I have a lot of plastic boxes (from the Really Useful Box Company ) and I sort things into them. That's how I discovered that we have 18 screwdrivers of assorted sizes, scattered about the house. We had 3 dustpans and 5 brushes. I shudder to think how many batteries we have around the place... there are 27 just on the desk here!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Tootler
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 04:38 PM

We are going to have to downsize sooner or later. We have started shifting stuff, but it is going to be a long job and a difficult one.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: fat B****rd
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 03:50 PM

We should be moving house shortly and at a rough estimate we'll need about 30 boxes of "things" apart from the larger items.
"Yes, darling. I do need all those CDs and 3 guitars and all those tapes and LPs that I never play"
Somethings will have to go.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Scrump
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 03:38 PM

There is probably a downside to downsizing, but I don't know from experience. Bets to get advice from people you know who did it, and find out if there were any drawbacks? It would be interesting to know.

As others have said, I'd like to, but the prospect of actually moving, clearing out all the junk, etc. is what holds me back.

I have the vague idea of gradually reducing the amoutn of junk I have, but it's a question of finding the time to sort through it. It always seems to be bottom of the list of things to do.

Sadly, an elderly relative (much older than me) is in that position and may shortly have it forced on him through poor health :(

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Sorcha
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 05:58 PM

I've been clearing out Stuff, getting down to the minimal. We could use a LOT less space, but I can't face actually moving.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 04:36 PM

Take a look at http://www.downsizer.net . They have a forum, too, which seems to have some good advice.

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: autolycus
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 03:55 PM

Everybody is different so I don't think there is one way, opr the right way, to do this (or anything else.)

   Good luck,tho'. Surely a step in the correct direction.





      Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 03:51 PM

I think you simplify first where you already are, then downsize to what's working, for the next move. I've had forced moves from the larger to the smaller, and it was painful and not practicable. Now I'm in a house about 4 times the size we now need, and I have simplified to the extent that I think our next move could feasibly be to a condo with indoor pool on the premises, which I need more than I need sleeping space for 20-30 people indoors and an equal number outside in tents (which we only have because we could have it easily after the kids moved out).

For me the simplification includes narrowing the stuff to what we would definitely keep on a move, and what we would leave behind. We have whole rooms of leave-behind stuff which we'll donate to the church on our eventual departure, because they do pick up when it's a houseful being donated. I make sure not to put anything large into those rooms that I would want to take, because I know that when we do move, that approach will make it simpler for the movers-- I can just hang "do not disturb" on those doors.

So by thinking and preparing in advance, I do think it's better done that way.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Downshifting
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 03:49 PM

Only stay alive and it'll happen to you sooner or later of its own accord.

Subject: BS: Downshifting
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 03:41 PM

I really fancy downshifting (downsizing); I've thought about it for a few years now, ever since I saw a television programme on it. I have this idea of what it would be like - a smaller house with less housework and maintenance, growing my own vegetables, economising, recycling, less reliance on electrical appliances, less work etc. On the programme I saw, some people made major changes very quickly. Is this the way to go or is it something that is best done gradually?